Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Oh, you know when you see two dogs meet and they get excited about.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Each other and their butts start going tails wagon? Absolutely.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Well, hi. Welcome to Dear queer Michelle. So, Michelle Williams is the founder of Therapy two at.
Michelle is an EMDR trained therapist, which you're going to have to explain to us, and a psychedelic assisted therapist that specializes in radical trauma informed care practices for those who are radically diverse themselves. Neurodiverse and gender expansive. In addition to clinical care, Michelle has collaborated with organizations and schools on best practices for building and maintaining inclusive and supportive spaces for LGBTQ and gender expansive black POC and neurodiverse patients, students, staff, and employees. Welcome, Michelle.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Thank you. We're so excited to have you on. I know. I feel like I've been chasing you for a little while. Ever since we started the pod, I was like, I thought of you, and I'm so glad that we were able to coordinate things. And I'm actually having a warm cup of tea as well, in honor of your hand.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: I didn't want to be. I didn't know if I was gonna be, like, slurping, and I didn't want to, like, ruin the army. I'm just, like.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: I'm just cozy. Like, I'm just holding mine, and it's nice and cozy, so it's. It's keeping me, um, keeping me warm. So. So thank you so much for being here. We're so happy to have you. Um, I know there's lots of topics that I feel like we're gonna draw on you over the course of the podcast, like our, you know, in future episodes, we've. You and I have kind of listed a few things that we could possibly talk about. And the one thing that resonated most recently, and I know is kind of near and dear to you lately, is speaking with intention, which just right when I read it, I was like, what? I want to know more. Right. It sounded. It just resonated with me. So can you start by telling us what you mean by speaking with intention and if there's some, you know, helpful examples for us.
[00:02:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
What I mean by speaking with intention is really just being aware of your intention when you're speaking. I think sometimes we speak before we even fully understand our thought.
And if we're misunderstood or if someone has a reaction to it, we say, oh, that's not what I meant. That wasn't my intention. It's like, what was your intention? And so speaking with intention is, you know, like, the opportunity to really check in with, like, what am I wanting to communicate. What am I wanting to get out this interaction? How am I wanting to make this other person feel like keeping those things in mind before we blurt something out or share something out?
[00:03:21] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, that sounds really. That's really hard.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: My partner's gonna be really glad we're doing this podcast.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Deb, telling you to take a moment.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I have a tattoo that says go slow.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. That's fair. And I mean that right away when you were saying that comes to mind. Just the difference too, between speaking in real life versus speaking over text or where there's like a possible delay in a way. Is it easier to speak with intention when there is a bit of distance?
[00:04:00] Speaker C: I think that it really depends on the person. My initial reaction is to say yes, because when there's distance, whatever the stimuli is, you have like some space between you and the stimuli. It's harder to speak with intention when you're face to face with somebody and you're feeling their energy and your energy and you're trying to make sense of or separation of those energies with a text message. And in the topic, speaking of attention came up for me because I was like, communicating with a young person in my life via asynchronous communication, like an email. But they were responding to it very heightened, like we were face to face. And I said, hey, this is asynchronous. You can read this, walk away from it, write it, delete it, come back, and then say what you really want to say. You don't have to just say what's boiling at the top right now because it's asynchronous. We have time.
But I do think it's harder when you're face to face with someone because you don't feel like you have a lot of time and you're very concerned about your connection with this person, probably when you're communicating.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: That's so funny. I feel like I've definitely seen that over email too, where, like you said, they just immediately respond in their first and that's just being reactive. But I know there's times that I've received emails that I need definitely. I know that if I respond right away, it's going to be. It's not going to come out right. I'm going to regret it.
I know I need to get past that initial reaction and emotion to then be able to respond in a more whatever kind of way, like in a more authentic kind of way, to maybe what I actually mean once I kind of get the initial reaction out of the way, yeah.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: I mean, this may be the obvious question, but why would it be important for people to, you know, take the time, slow down, say what you mean, mean what you say and all those things.
Why is this an important thing that's kind of, you know, something that you're passionate about and working on these days?
[00:06:08] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I've been on the receiving end of people saying and doing, and then when I'm curious about this, they're not ready for that curiosity because they don't know. And so they don't have time to really reconcile that. Like, I don't. I don't know why are you asking me this?
But also, I.
I've been diagnosed with ADHD, and I work with a lot of clients that also have ADHD or autistic or a combination of the above who experience neurodiversity for a lot of reasons. And so sometimes the body really makes a decision for us before we're really ready to make that intention, make that decision. So as a result, we're having interactions that we're needing to recover from. And so the reason why I want, you know, like, I'm really passionate about speaking with intention is because it's easier to go slow in the beginning than it is to recover from moving too fast on the back end.
I've just not seen it go well when it's like, well, that's not what I meant. It's like, why did you say that if that wasn't what you meant?
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Oh, you are preaching to the choir here.
Yeah, we've done a few episodes on neurodiversity. I have ADHD myself.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: I'm thinking I might be autistic.
I'm still going for an assessment, but, yeah, so we are definitely kind of in that lane as well.
[00:07:37] Speaker A: And it's absolutely, this thing that happens often for me is you'll be in conversation and, yeah, you're kind of riffing and you just say, what's on the top of your head. And then in my case, or if I'm talking to my partner, you said that. And they'll be like, oh, but I didn't mean it. And it's like, how can I expect my partner not to take what I said and the meaning behind it? Of course they're going to. So, yeah, you actually articulate that. It's, you know, much easier to, you know, instead of, you know, sorry. It's much easier to get ahead of it instead of being after the fact is like, yeah, yes, but how do we remove those dominoes so we don't do that.
[00:08:26] Speaker C: Yeah, and there's a few things. And, you know, and I'm really coming from the neurodiverse space because I know, like, neurotypical culture or, like, average culture. I don't know. It feels weird to say typical, but people who feel like they're not divergent, you know, we all are, they expect to read between the lines. They expect meanings to be implied. And I'm noticing that myself, in my community, with my clients, we're not often, like, equipped or wired to read between the lines. So if you say, oh, why don't you go have a seat? I'm gonna go have a seat, I don't know that I don't have even the capacity or the desire to know that you meant something else because you're being sarcastic or something.
And I think that's why I've been finding myself being curious.
So how do we get ahead of it? You know, one, I think it's gonna be important for us to notice, like, who is it? Who is it the easiest to speak authentically with and, like, what's present in that relationship or that environment?
And then what relationships do you find yourself saying things, and there's often this, like, reaction or this back end miscommunication or missed connection. What are those relate, like, what's present in those relationships? I think just getting curious about that would be really helpful to start because I know, like, for my friends who I feel the most comfortable with, I don't have to be very careful about what I'm saying because I feel regulated enough to say what I'm saying.
Like, my body and my brain are kind of, like, in alignment, but if I'm, like, speaking to, I don't know, like, a very harsh, superior. It might be harder for me to, like, put together the thought the way I want to, and then I might not be able to communicate the way I'm really meaning to.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I get that. So it's kind of recognizing the state we're in and also, well, in relation to the relationship. So then when we're going into new environments or we find ourselves in already a heightened state, we can kind of have that awareness to be like, okay, I need to probably go even slower or just recognize the state I'm in rather than. Rather than kind of getting into that reactive mode. That kind of is going to just steamroll.
[00:10:55] Speaker C: Absolutely. So, for example, in my practice, we use some interventions from a theory called polyvagal theory, which is the study of the nervous system.
And so in that theory, you know, when you're in a heightened state. When you are in this activated state, you're more likely to be doing things that are, like, defensive or protective. So if I feel the most comfortable with you all, but I'm running late, I'm hungry, I'm experiencing some type of pain.
You know, those are things that I would probably want to be a little bit more aware of, because it's definitely going to affect how I'm communicating. Even if we have the best relationship versus if I'm on time, I'm well fed, I'm not experiencing any discomfort in my body. The sun's out. I might be able to, you know, like, communicate a little bit more clearly.
The other thing about the intention is it's harder to connect with your intention when you're not really knowing what's affecting you. Right. So maybe you're not realizing that all those things are building up. And so you're saying something because you have to get this energy out. You have to express something, but you're not even. You don't even know what you're holding or what you're bringing into the insurrection.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: I mean, something that came to me when you were saying that was that. I don't know. I don't think I've ever regretted anything. No. The things I've regretted saying the most are the things I've said immediately or quickly. Right. It's like in that reactive kind of state, rather than. I don't know that there's anything that I've put a lot of thought and slowness into and said and then been like, oh, you know, because I have. It's come from maybe a place of awareness.
Can you tell us more about the connection, then, between the nervous system and speaking with intention?
[00:12:54] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So when we're looking at the nervous system, we have three. So if we do, like, green, yellow, red, in your green state, because I don't want to bring you all with the jargon, but in your green state, you're feeling present and connected. You're grounded. You can have access to laughter. You can attune to other people's voices. You're feeling creative. You can rest. Your body can heal. Right. We're not perpetually in that state. We're kind of, like, in between this state and other states. But this is, like, a very ideal state where I would really expect someone to be equipped to speak with intention.
Now, that's also a practice. And so even if you're feeling present and connected, if you don't have that skill, you would still have to, like, practice that skill, but you will be the most available there.
The yellow state is your activated state. Now, activated in your body just means, like, excited. Things are moving.
You need to be able to move. And so in that state, you find yourself. You could be feeling excited, anticipatory, but you also could be feeling, like, anxious, stressed, angry, irritated, perturbed.
You can even be finding yourself feeling curious in this state. And so while you're there and you're feeling activated, things are moving a lot faster, your heart rate is moving faster, so your blood is moving differently. And so in that state, excuse me, in that state, you're able to connect, but you're heightened. And so your ability to be in community or to feel safe in community is a little bit more.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Challenged?
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Yeah, challenged, if you will. So a place where you would feel, like, accepted. And sure, while you're in this heightened state, maybe you're not feeling so accepted, so you're going into a new place, you're excited about it, but will they like me? Will they accept me? Things like that?
And belonging to a group is very important to us. It's like we're born with this innate knowing that we have to belong to a group for survival. And so when we are faced with interactions that may challenge us belonging to a group, it then puts us in a place where we have to be protective of ourselves. That's when you find yourself maybe withdrawing or avoiding. That might find yourself when you're feeling defensive or reactive or snappy, or that's when you find yourself being a peacemaker or a mediator or placator.
So in that state, then we have our red state. And the red state is when your system is feeling overwhelmed. So we've experienced too much activation for too long of a period, and now we're feeling overwhelmed, shut down, stuck, frozen. We don't know what to do with this energy. We don't know what to do, how we feel. We don't know how to get out of what feels threatening or dangerous to us.
And so, I mean, then physiologically, like, our metabolism shows down, the body prioritizes survival at that moment. So your appetite might be different, your sleep might be different. You're not able to really attune to a person's voice where somebody's like, listen to me, it's your friend. It doesn't do what it normally would if you weren't in that state, right?
So when you're absolutely shut down, not only will you not be able to speak with intention, but you might not even be able to recognize or discern other people's intentions.
Right. When you're in a yellow state, you might be able to speak with intention, or you might be able to, like, fix it. You might speak and then say, oh, I can course correct here. I didn't mean to say that. Right then and there. You might be in that area.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: You might get lucky.
[00:16:31] Speaker C: And then ideally, you can be thinking, you could be pausing and you can, you know, be able to assess the situation and then be able to speak with a little bit more attention.
But I want to be clear that we're never just, like, only green, only yellow. Only we're, like, often between a yellow and a green.
Between a red and a yellow. We're kind of often in between those days, throughout the day and throughout different experiences.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: So what would you recommend for someone when they're. If they are finding themselves in a red state but they are required to have some sort of conversation or to try and speak with intention, how can they kind of pull themselves out of that into a better. Into a yellow or green place?
[00:17:16] Speaker C: I love that you say it into a yellow because we absolutely have to work our way into green. We can't go from red to green. That's like jumping off a ladder, right? We have to walk down a ladder so we don't have any injuries. So somebody's feeling absolutely shut down. Truly, if somebody's feeling absolutely shut down, we would activate, like, our social engagement system. So we would have to be social, but it might not be directly to speaking with intention. We would have to, like, slowly energize the body towards that. And so, you know, in studying the nervous system, it's helpful to just be curious about yourself and what feels threatening. Like, what is the threat? And I'm saying the word threat because, like, biologically, like, these systems happen in our body, biologically, right, to help us stay safe from danger. But emotional dangers are something that we encounter far more than, like, initially, what our body probably was anticipating. And so running away from, like, a bear and then being away from a bear is different from, like, being in a conversation you can't escape, or a relationship you can't escape, or a job you can't escape.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: It's interesting. You see, I like the simplification of green, yellow, red, and I have found myself, which I can now articulate, as in that red stage. And I'll go more to it, definitely into a shutdown, but I find that, like, it can come out very physically in me. So, say, if I was in a heated conversation, and got activated and moved from that yellow to red phase. I often feel like I have to move and walk and work the energy out. I do this weird thing with my hands where I kind of try and really shake that energy out.
You know, not for having any specific tools, but it definitely. The physical side of it comes up.
[00:19:23] Speaker C: That is exactly what it is. So it sounds like you're intuitively coming out of a shutdown state because you absolutely have to get moving.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: You have to get moving isn't fun for a partner because you're like, where are you going? And I'm like, I'm de escalating.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: And you do.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: I'm like, in, you know, trying not to be at all in, you know, therapy speak or something. Like, I don't know, I just. I need to move.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so good.
[00:19:48] Speaker C: Yeah, but you have to move literally. And I know that when you're feeling stuck, it's hard to move. It's hard to even think about moving, but you do have to move. And I know that, you know that we have our meditative spaces, but that's not the time to be slowing down. Your body and your mind is already slowed down. That's the time for you to get moving. Shaking, shaking, physically shaking, physically dancing, moving, or even, like, rapid breathing. So I know we have our deep breathing, but there's this thing called fire breaths, like, truly to re energize the system. Remember, we have to go from shutdown to activation. So we do have to get our systems back online before we can come back to, like, a slowing down of our choosing that feels safe and secure.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: In our bodies, which can be hard, too, especially for folks with ADHD.
You know, task switching can be something that's really challenging. So I think it can be very easy, or at least I can speak for myself. That's like, when you get into that shutdown state, it's very easy to just stay in it and just be like, you know what? We're here now. Lock it down.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: So if we're in that state, then, and trying to remember these things, do you have any kind of tips or tricks to kind of. I mean, even. I think people knowing that this is something that they can move through is absolutely helpful. But are there things you point your clients towards with, like, okay, knowing you have these tools like fire breath or moving or dance or things like that is one thing, but it's like, how do you get yourself to. To make those good choices?
[00:21:33] Speaker C: Yeah. How do you do it? Yeah, it's hard to get started, especially depending on the circumstances that are leading to a shutdown.
And so I always recommend a visual reminder someplace. And so, you know, some people have it written down. I have some clients who write it on, like, sticky and put it on their computer because they know they're going to open your computer. Some people have on the background their phone. For me, I have, like, calendar like, reminders that pop up on the phone and take over the screen, like, yo, just in case, because I will for I will forget and I won't even notice.
So I think that that's helpful. I think people who have access to community, having the community members, like, know, like, what will be supportive for you in those moments and, like, joining you in that, or at least being present while you try to engage in it compassionately. Right. Because we don't want people to come in like, you know, you need to be doing your fire. Bramps. It's like, I already feel like that.
So those are a few ways that I feel like my clients and I have been able to kind of address feeling stuck. And the thing is, sometimes we may be stuck, and I think that I don't want us to, like, invalidate a very natural and appropriate response to certain things.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: I was going to say, because I guess the being stuck has to come from somewhere, and it's literally your body trying to slow you down. So maybe you didn't, maybe you didn't speak with intention, and so you're trying to do damage control for this thing you said, and then you get heightened and then you're in your red face then, and then, and then, and what you need really, is to just, you know, be still. So many of these things to what you said earlier, Michelle, is like, yeah, they come from, you know, our evolution that fight or flight.
[00:23:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And when you think about it, like, because I know speaking with intention is like.
Like, it's an intention that we're setting, but if you are in communication with someone who you really desire to be in connection with and you're not sure about your connection, just being uncertain about that connection is enough to activate you. And that's a threat. That's a threat. I'm not sure how this person feels about me. I don't know how. I'm not sure how this interaction is going to go. That's a threat. Each threat, you know, like, activates our nervous system.
It triggers our body to, like, be in a protective state. And however long that threat goes on, then brings different, you know, like, systems online to protect us. And so you know, it's definitely going to be a challenge to speak with intention, where you're not even sure what you know, like, what the state of the relationship is that you're with the person you're interacting with.
And I don't expect anyone to be, like, clear, assertive, intentional, in a place that feels unsure. I think the first step would be, how do we.
What are we unsure about? Like, do we really know what this situation is? You know, like, do we know that this is a person that's committed to misunderstanding, or do we know that we have vastly different communication styles, and it's well documented, because if we know that, then we can pull in different resources to support us.
If we don't know what's happening between us and another person or these other people, then that's where we should start, like, what's happening here?
Before we expect ourselves to do something, like, intentional and courageous like that. But to your point, if you come in and you're ready and you're like, I know what I know what I want to say. I know how I want to communicate. I know what I want the end goal to be. And you're, like, meeting roadblock after roadblock in their interaction. Heighten. Heighten. Like you said, you're shut down. You're activated. You're not really sure what to do, and now you're terrified. You don't know what this means for you or you and y'all.
Sometimes you do need to take it back and really, you know, like, deescalate and, you know, like, your body needs signals that it is not in danger anymore.
And you know how, like you said, sometimes you need to take a walk where there's some people who don't want you to take that walk, they're gonna take their walk with you so they could get their point out.
Please, please, please.
This is only gonna make me more shut down. I'm not shutting down. The body is shutting down. And so, you know, I do think, like, just pulling the community in, like, this is, like, you know, like, physiologically, like, medically what I need so that I can, like, safely interact in this space.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: It sounds like curiosity plays an important role in this. Right? Like, getting curious about, well, what are my intentions? How am I going to communicate them? And all those questions you brought up, where it's like, if you're unsure of what the dynamic is there or how someone else feels and that matters to you, and just kind of inserting curiosity instead of assumptions, maybe helps us to maybe not.
I mean, potentially not get as activated because we're not going in thinking we know exactly what we're like, the way it is or what we're going to say or how they feel and trying to kind of keep an open mind, like a curious mind asking questions, maybe rather than just kind of going in with certainty. Does that make any sense?
[00:27:21] Speaker C: It makes perfect sense. And I always say, like, you know, like, lead with curiosity. You don't know. But I think that based on our experiences and based on our worldview, we're, like, conditioned and trained to make assumptions based on certain things that we witness or we think we witnessed.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:42] Speaker C: And so it's hard for people to reconcile. Like, that's not what happened or that's not what that means. And so, for example, this is something I encounter a lot, where someone will send a text message or make a call or, like, a story on Instagram and they don't get a response. And what they deem is fast enough or immediate enough or whatever, and so they use the language. This person ignored me.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: And I'm like, ignoring is a very active process.
Yeah, there's a lot of things that could have happened. Can we make room for the other things that could have happened? Maybe they didn't see it yet. Maybe they didn't know what to say. Maybe they didn't feel like a response was warranted. Maybe they're busy. Maybe they thought they were going to come back to it. Maybe they thought they responded, but they forgot.
It's a lot of other things that could have happened before we can get to. This person intentionally ignored me because they hate me.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: I love that you're speaking to that because this is social media language and experience right now across the board.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: They want to, you know, talk to you about it in person.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. There's so. There's so many different things in the way and so many other possibilities. I totally agree.
[00:28:54] Speaker C: Yeah. I do think that leading with curiosity takes.
It takes a level of. I mean, that also takes a level of intention, and it takes a level of courageousness.
But ultimately, I really. I really like to check in with people about, like, the permissions they're giving their self because.
So for me, like I told you, I have ADHD. So, like, the impulsive conversation to having to get the thought out, to not want to respond, the rejection sensitivity, the assuming that rejection is in the room before. Before I'm ever confirming that it is, that's in me. It's in me.
And my friendships mean so much to me that I had to really reconcile with how that was affecting my friendships. And so I'm holding that. I forget a lot of stuff, but I can't forget that. And so when I'm communicating, I'm like, okay, this person means a lot to me. They told me I mean, a lot to them. What I'm wanting to do and what we're all wanting to do, if we can really be honest for a minute, is we only want to connect with other people. So if our objective is to connect, is what I'm about to say going to allow me to connect with this person or not?
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:30:15] Speaker C: And I don't think that, you know, I don't think that we answer self that question enough. So it's like, well, when you.
When you gave this person this look or when you closed your body off, did you think that that was an invitation to connect?
And how were they supposed to get that signal?
[00:30:36] Speaker B: So, yeah, yeah.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: I think it's interesting, too, with the rejection sensitivity and ADHD. It's like, you can, at the same time, be extremely sensitive to what other people are saying about you and also kind of bullish in, like, what you say to others. And so it's kind of this, like, inverse thing that is, like, gets me in sticky situations, let me tell you.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: You're comfortable saying it, but it would really hurt you if you received it.
[00:31:05] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there any other advice you want to give for people in attempting to speak with intention?
[00:31:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think, like, let me summarize, and then I can, like, bring in, like, some other advice.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: You know, like, in wanting to speak with intention, you know, be curious about what you're wanting to say and what you're wanting to get out this interaction.
I know sometimes we leave interactions feeling disappointed that it didn't go the way we want it, but I'm not sure if we're really clear on how we wanted it to go. And I think that that will help us be more intentional in our interactions and in our responses.
You know, be curious about how you're coming into a space and be curious about the space that you're entering.
And in addition to being curious, I want to invite you to be honest about that space.
I know what we want this space to be, but what is the space, actually? And can we interact with what the facts are?
The other thing that I want people to keep in mind is you don't have to be perfect just because we're all practicing this, and I'm a therapist, I don't always get it right, but when you do notice it, you have so many opportunities to repair that connection and to course correct. And so even if you said something initially or you start say something, you don't have to finish it. You can say, oh, let me stop right there, because I don't think I'm saying what I meant to say. I don't think I'm communicating what I meant to communicate. Or let me pause, because I think I need a little bit more time to think this through.
If someone's misunderstanding you, you know, maybe take that as a signal to be curious about. What did you say? Like, did you say what you thought you said? Because those things are different, and then be open to editing.
I think that those are strong relationship builders. The other thing is, you know, to the point of if you're feeling so shut down that you.
You don't think you can connect with anyone else or you can move or do anything like that, that's the time for you to really move.
I know that we want to wait for the motivation, but sometimes we have to move, then feel the motivation. I know it feels counterintuitive, but truly, it's like, oh, I feel horrible. Let me move this body right now. I feel so horrible. Even if you're just shaking your body and it'll feel silly.
And also, laughing is a regulator, and so you laugh by yourself, then you can laugh with other people.
[00:33:45] Speaker A: These are really good. These are all really great tips. I love it.
[00:33:48] Speaker B: I really love the point about repair, too, because often we don't get it right the first time, but there's a real opportunity to kind of own the repair and actually get your intention across and then also learn from that. I feel like every time we do a repair, we're also learning, okay, next time, I need to be more conscious of that, or I need to be more conscious. I was really hungry then, or I was grumpy or whatever, and I shouldn't have. I should have paused. And I think that's really a great point, too, as well.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And I even think to add on to that is, like, it's actually an opportunity to be vulnerable, especially if you're, like, in community or friends or partnership, that, like, you can share that vulnerability instead of, you know, maybe what is the simpler road would be to double down on it, and then that's gonna kick you up into, I imagine, you know, a yellow or a red face.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:34:42] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Where can people find you? Michelle?
[00:34:48] Speaker C: Yeah. So I'm queer. Black therapist on TikTok and Instagram, and then therapy two.
Dasha.com is my website.
And I don't know if you all have heard of this conference. It's called healthy voices. Like healthy, healthy with the e and not a Ydezenhe, but they have an Instagram and they do this conference for online health advocates every year. And so you can often find me there either in a panel discussion or moderating one. I'll be at their conference this year, so you can also find me there.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: That's amazing. We'll share all the links on our socials and everywhere for it as well.
[00:35:30] Speaker B: Thank you so much again. I hope we can have you on again. We'd love to talk about more stuff with you. This is amazing.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: Yeah. What a great therapy session this has been. Another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts, who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host as always, Elena Papianis.
[00:36:01] Speaker C: I'm getting that.
