Late Bloomer Autism Edition

[00:00:00] Speaker A: It sounds like it's almost like permission to reframe things that might have been that you might have felt were negative in the past, but now it's like you can kind of. It sounds like you're letting yourself see it as almost like a superpower or. [00:00:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. And it's something that is feeding me for some reason. Like it brings me joy. So why would I judge that? If you have a question, I know fear, you can say free. Dear. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Hi. Happy Thursday. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Happy Thursday. Wink. So we've talked about late blooming or the idea of, you know, coming up later in life. That was one of our first few episodes. And I have had a more recent other late blooming experience of getting a. An autism diagnosis. And I think if it's okay with you, I want to start with reading just the intro paragraph of an essay that I had published in a magazine called the New Quarterly. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Let's see this thing. [00:01:27] Speaker B: I can actually. I'm going to lend this to you after. This is one of the copies you can borrow. [00:01:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:01:31] Speaker B: So the essay is called In Life and Writing. [00:01:34] Speaker A: Love it. [00:01:34] Speaker B: And basically I compare the two. Okay. In many of my liberal studies courses in university, we had essays as final exams. I'd be given a series of questions to answer about a text or two passages to compare and have to come up with an essay in a few hours. I'd slowly fill up the exam booklet and at the end I'd write the best part of my essay condensed into one powerful sentence. This was what I'd been trying to say all along. One professor always called me out on this, circling my thesis in red and writing beside it. This should have been at the beginning of your essay. I was frustrated by her comment because I wasn't able to write that sentence any sooner. I didn't understand my main point until I processed everything that came before it. As someone who came out as queer in my late 30s, after marrying a man and having a child, I often feel like this late blooming essay, like I should have also known much sooner. But I couldn't or wouldn't and so I didn't. [00:02:37] Speaker A: So yeah, I love that. So this is from the New Quarterly. And then this is your essay titled In Life and Writing. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a winter issue 173, and it was very exciting to get that published. And it's my first one in a literary magazine. But just the whole concept of like the process of writing can be where you start with an idea and you don't know where you're going to end up or you kind of think you know where you're going, but you end up somewhere else. And that whole kind of idea of either being, like, structured going into it, because you don't want to be like. In the same way, you don't want someone to look at your life and be like, wow, that's a mess. Like, you don't want someone to look at your essay and be like, wow, that's a mess. You know, where's the structure? Where's the plot? Where's the narrative? [00:03:23] Speaker A: It's the classic, too, of, like, hindsight. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Right. And so this kind of late, you know, later in life theme is just so prominent with me. [00:03:36] Speaker A: And so in the same. In the same way that in that essay you were talking about how that feedback kind of struck a nerve and hurt and all of those things. Do you have that narrative around late in life? Like, is it the same? You know, you couldn't get there anyway? [00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. But it does. But it doesn't mean you still don't kick yourself over it, you know, often or sometimes. And actually, by the time this episode comes out, I'll have had an essay on CBC Arts coming out about also the later in life kind of idea. I read about the show Sex Education, that British show, and how it brought up all these kind of later in life, at least complicated later in life feelings for me where you can feel simultaneously, like, grateful that the show exists, grateful that you came out when you did. But it doesn't mean that you still don't sometimes kick yourself over not knowing sooner, even though that's, you know, you couldn't have. Like, it's only yourself now. Who knows, who can look back and say, damn, why didn't I know? But that version of you then wasn't capable. [00:04:47] Speaker A: No, it didn't exist. And it's like the version you are now is a combination of all of those things. And I think in talking about all these versions of ourselves and kind of hitting some more intersectional identities, maybe we should reintroduce ourselves to the listeners. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Okay. [00:05:10] Speaker A: How do you feel about that? [00:05:12] Speaker B: Sure. [00:05:13] Speaker A: You're adding some letters to you with distinction. [00:05:19] Speaker B: It's true. It's true. Okay. Well, do you want to go first? [00:05:22] Speaker A: Absolutely not. [00:05:23] Speaker B: Why not? [00:05:23] Speaker A: I ask the questions here. [00:05:25] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. I'm Elena. I go by she. They. And I'm queer and I'm autistic. And I'm so happy to know those things about myself now. [00:05:36] Speaker A: I love that. [00:05:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:37] Speaker A: Does it feel good to say it? [00:05:38] Speaker B: It does feel good. To say it, because it's also. There can be so much stigma around it, and people can have certain ideas about what autism looks like as well, and which is partly why, especially as a woman or like, afabs in general, like, it. You go under the radar because autism has been diagnosed according to male baselines. And same with. [00:06:00] Speaker A: Yeah, same with adhd. It's like, same with most things. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Same with most things in the medical field, for sure. So. So, yeah, people can have kind of a stigma around admitting it, even, because, again, people might have particular notions about what it is or what it looks like or what it means for you. And I'm just really trying to, like, lean into it because I know some of my quirks and strengths and some of my best qualities are probably a function of it. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Heck, yeah. A little bit. Well, nice to meet you. [00:06:34] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks. [00:06:36] Speaker A: Nice to re. Meet you. [00:06:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Well, thank you for your intro. Okay, let's see. I'm Lauren. I think we're. I think we're moving into the she. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Oh, amazing. [00:06:48] Speaker A: I love this. You know what the she is just left for family members and colleagues, I think. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Like, vestigial she. [00:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Kind of hanging on by a thread. [00:06:59] Speaker A: I don't need to. Yeah, we don't need to do this. Yeah, yeah. Neurodivergent. My usual brand is raging adhd. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Raging. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Particular in. In the positives and negatives. [00:07:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:19] Speaker A: Dog, mom and fiance. Creative. And this is in my later 30s. White person. [00:07:32] Speaker B: You just can't keep going. [00:07:36] Speaker A: Any more boxes. [00:07:37] Speaker B: I should check. Oh, my gosh, that's so funny. That could be a whole. [00:07:40] Speaker A: I might have to cut this. [00:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. [00:07:43] Speaker A: But, yeah, I. I don't know. I think it's good to talk about the different. Intersect. Intersecting identities because they come up in. In different ways. Yeah. Maybe if you could talk a little bit about your diagnosis and what your journey was with that. [00:07:59] Speaker B: Sure. So actually, first it started with my daughter a couple years ago, and there was the suggestion that she might be autistic and, like, from family. And I was like, no way. Not a chance. Like, not. Not at all. You know, like, had no real. Real notions of what it was or my. My image was probably of what it looks like in men or boys or just like, the most stereotypical versions you've seen on television or in movies. Right. And then within, I don't know, a few days of reading a bit about what it looks like in girls and women, watching a couple TED Talks and things, I was pretty convinced. [00:08:45] Speaker A: And. And what are some of those things? [00:08:47] Speaker B: So for girls it's much more internalized process. And what you'll often see in girls is a real contrast in terms of their behavior. So, like, for example, gorgeously well behaved at school. Every teacher is saying, what a pleasure to have in the classroom. Loves to follow the rules. Helps the other kids out, the little kids, so they know what the rules are. You know, just like inquisitive pet in the books, does what they're supposed to do. Pleasure, like, absolute dream. [00:09:23] Speaker A: And they're like, well, I'm crushing parenting. [00:09:25] Speaker B: But then what you see at home are the meltdowns are the inability to sort of do things they don't want to do or. Or I guess now in retrospect, are anxious. I know they're anxious about. But it comes out as just like, emotional dysregulation and like, pure meltdowns and like, freaking out over the tiniest little things, like your socks not being perfectly aligned on your heels. Or my daughter had this infamous line like, it's too tight. And she'd kind of, like, pull her pants away from her body and just be like, it's too tight. You know, so these, like, kind of bodily sensory things. And just like, not like. I remember the first day of school showing up for her in junior kindergarten, and all the other parents and kids were, like, happy taking photos, you know, just like, so excited for the day. And we showed up. Barely got out the door. She had cried, I had cried. [00:10:28] Speaker A: Everybody's crying. [00:10:29] Speaker B: She barely made it there. And I remember a fellow mom being like, do you want me to take a picture of you guys? And we kind of looked up and we're like, no, like, please don't. And so things like that, where you look around and you're like, why does it look like I'm the only one going through this? Like, what is different about us? That this was our morning, whereas everyone else had a great day. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's interesting, I think you say too, about the. At home versus at school. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:56] Speaker A: And because likely what was happening is your daughter was probably masking all day and just like, you know, making it through. [00:11:04] Speaker B: Yes. Making it through. Trying so hard to, like, know what the rules are, how to behave. And then in the safety of home, actually just completely melting, able to fall apart. Yeah. So that was. That's one of the reasons. And then there's also part of the masking is also how, like, falls into people pleasing. So, I mean, now that made me rethink a lot of my. What I thought was people pleasing in my life too, because I'm like, oh, maybe that was. [00:11:33] Speaker A: Go check out her app. [00:11:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Me masking social and just being, like, socialized as a girl to do these things, which are basically the same way that often girls will mask too. It, like, looks very similar. And with the added social pressure of, like, you know, being a girl and these kind of expectations put on you that aren't put on boys. What else was I gonna say? [00:11:56] Speaker A: Well, I think even too, to the looking back, like, I think we talked a little bit about this with coming out, and it's like, it's. It's so interesting because it's. Now that you have this diagnosis and understanding and framework, it's like, it's. It. It's so tempting. And, like, how can you not look back and try and be like, pick up on those things for sure. Yeah. [00:12:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So then once she was diagnosed. Well, as she was getting diagnosed, basically, it start. Me. Started me thinking about myself and just being like, huh. Well, there are some parallels there. Like, I remember being inconsolable. My mom's words exactly. You know, when I had to go to, like, swimming lessons, probably every week, I cried or, like, you know, and. [00:12:41] Speaker A: And what was it about the swimming lessons? [00:12:43] Speaker B: I don't remember. I literally just remember just being, like, so upset. [00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:47] Speaker B: And. But anything she kind of was making me do or anything I didn't want to do. One time she literally had. I remember holding on to my bed at home. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:59] Speaker B: Because I didn't want to go to school. I think this was like, JK or something very little. Oh, yeah. So basically, I think it was junior kindergarten. I remember holding onto my bed and crying. My mom had to, like, call my dad home from work to help to try and get me there. And it's supposed to be only half days. And apparently I just learned this recently that it just happened so many times that I, like, I do remember being sat down beside my teacher and just crying and her, like, patting me on the head. But it happened so much that the school eventually was like, you know what? Let's just try again next year. Like, this clearly isn't working. I just didn't go no more. JK just, no, we'll try again next year. Right. [00:13:36] Speaker A: And so they're clearly not ready. [00:13:38] Speaker B: Yeah. But then part of the diagnosis was, like, going back. And luckily my mom had kept all my report cards from literally every year and including a letter from my Montessori school. That was so. It was just basically an echo of my daughter's behavior. Like, perfect. A dream in the class follows the rules and then meanwhile at home, I'm. [00:13:58] Speaker A: Melting, hanging onto the headboard. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly Right. So that's one clear sign. There's also, like, more subtle things. Like, apparently girls, autistic girls are more likely to have boys as friends when they're younger. And my daughter did that. Hey, I still have a lot of close guy friends because there's this kind of. Maybe not a lot too. I have, like, two, and I love them both. But there's this. It just feels like a simpler interaction for you. It's like a less complicated dynamic and relationship. And so my daughter had that as well when she was little. So, anyways, I'm getting off topic. But her diagnosis led to me, considering my own experience, and then. And it was also happening at a point where I was feeling, like, suddenly most functioning and relationships and things were suddenly just more difficult, and I couldn't understand why. And I mean, in retrospect, I think I was going through autistic burnout, really. But so it kind of was like, at the same time as me reaching some sort of breaking point where I was already kind of, you know, looking at what was going on. So that made sense of it. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And so in. In since being diagnosed and now knowing what you know now and having this new lens to look back on your experiences, how are. Like, what. I guess what's happened since your diagnosis? Are there. Are there new ways you're kind of dealing with things? Are you. What's. What's going on? [00:15:39] Speaker B: I think it's a whole new level of permission, basically, at its core, it's like permission to say no to things. Permission to protect my energy, you know, like, permission to even. Just silly things that save me. Like, not silly things, but I. I didn't realize how much joy I get from leftovers. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Amazing. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Like, from making a lot of food and knowing it's going to save me energy for, like, the next few days. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:09] Speaker B: I get so much happiness out of that. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Didn't we talk? We've talked, I think, on the podcast before, too, about, like, permission to just even eat the same thing. [00:16:18] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Maybe that was the one we did in New Year's. [00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So, like. [00:16:22] Speaker A: So you're. You're following your resolutions. Look at us checking in. [00:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm learning two things that feed me, like, so when I am having. Well, there was one huge revelation that. So 1. Another common experience of autistic women is misdiagnosis. [00:16:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:38] Speaker B: And a psychologist did try to diagnose me with depression, and it didn't feel right because I was like. But it's not chronic for me. Like, I can be great for days and days, and then I'll have two sad days. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:52] Speaker B: Where I can't do anything. And that's the burnout. Yeah, that's a burnout. And so I realized that actually my sad is when I'm tired. That's when it happens. So just, like, knowing that it's a temporary state, if I can try and avoid it, then that's great. [00:17:10] Speaker A: And then just even maybe prioritizing sleep and the things that affect your sleep. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Totally rest. And then also what I realized, because you don't want to just necessarily, like, rest all the time during those moments. So actually, what I found I did last time was I did some, like, baking and cooking. [00:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:25] Speaker B: And it was just like, slow and quiet diet permission. But. Yeah. And, like, the smell of the broth. I'm making soup and baking stuff, like, kind of meditative, you know, and so I was like, oh, this is me actually kind of filling my cup a little again. [00:17:39] Speaker A: This is what I do in those. Kind of slow and even, I think, too, it's. It's interesting that from what you're saying, there's a lot of, like. Oh, it seems like there's a bit of a Venn diagram with adhd, because I. I, you know, was diagnosed with depression as a teenager and in my early 20s. And, yeah, I've recontextualized a lot of that to be with more of, like, you know, that ADHD burnout. And so it's really. It's really cool to hear you say that, but I think it's what I was gonna say. Oh, where was I going? That, like, permission to slow down and just being like, oh, I've been here before. I know what works in these moments. That's so great. I think even just, like, riding the different waves and energies that we have is a skill regardless of whether or not your neurodivergent is something that's really valuable for a lot of people and, like, being okay with it. [00:18:34] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Not, like, judging yourself. Yeah. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Because that only makes it. Yeah. It's like, there's already so much pressure and. [00:18:40] Speaker B: Yeah. What else was I going to say about that? And even just sensory. Other sensory things like lighting candles or listening to particular music, even if it's the same album over and over and over again, like, if that's what feeds you again and if that's what kind of builds you back up, then just, like, lean into it. So the kind of, like, Nerding out. That can happen with autism. You can be, like, you know, just really be fascinated by something and just allowing myself to lean into that, like, whether it's my writing or just, like, I don't even know, random. Like, random things. [00:19:14] Speaker A: It sounds like. It's almost like permission to reframe things that might have been. That you might have felt were negative in the past, but now it's like you can kind of. It sounds like you're letting yourself see it as almost like a superpower. [00:19:26] Speaker B: Absolutely. And it's something that is feeding me for some reason. Like, it brings me joy. So why would I judge that? [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, because obviously you're a professor. You're a writer. We just listened to your. One of your published essays. I think it's. And I'm curious if you would make the comparison, but I think there's definitely something to the sensory things. And that probably being a really big part of your writing, it's like. Because if you are someone who is really sensitive to the way something feels or, like, you know, the smell of the rain or the candles or this, it's like you're probably, I would imagine, more easily able to paint those pictures for other folks. [00:20:11] Speaker B: That's a good point. I think part of it for me is maybe. Maybe it's like the pattern noticing almost. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Or finding some bigger meaning in a moment. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Like, I think I. I think I told you about this essay that I've written called the Card Aisle, where it's about, like. Basically, it opens with me trying to pick a card, a Mother's Day card. And that experience, you know, being basically like a moment of truth for you. It's this moment that forces you to define a relationship. And, you know, like, sometimes you're simplifying the relationship, sometimes you're neutral, speaking neutrally. Sometimes you're imposing your own personality on the other person with the card you give sometimes, like, there's all these different things that come from that. And that's one of those thoughts that, you know, anyone I tell, they're like, oh, absolutely. Like, I've experienced that. Like, but yet. Yet it's. [00:21:12] Speaker A: I don't know, maybe they might not articulate it. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Or have thought of it or have. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Like, lived in it in the same way. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So for me to, like, find those moments that feel like a microcosm for something bigger that we experience, I feel like that is the strength, too, that probably comes from. [00:21:27] Speaker A: It's the end of the essay. It's like the Sum up. Yeah. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:32] Speaker A: I think that's what makes, like, even things as simple as TikToks or Instagrams. It's when someone articulates the obvious thing and. But we. I don't have that ability. In the same way, it's like, I. I love your writing because you always have this, like, hook or weigh in that's so evident after you've read it, but, like, not until then. Right, right. And I think because you're living in those nuances so much more, you're more easily able to access those, which is really cool. [00:22:04] Speaker B: I mean, I think writing has been a gift to put me in touch with my more. My more like, emotive side, because probably also part of my autism has meant I've thought about my feelings more than I felt them in the past. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:22:25] Speaker B: And not articulated them. Not been able to identify them. Really not be able to be in my, like, embodied with them. [00:22:32] Speaker A: And it's, like, more intellectual. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:34] Speaker B: And so I think this whole, like, you know, spiritual journey I've been on for however many years, it all began with don't throw it away. I know, but, you know, but I mean, it's. It's been. That's. That's when I started writing. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Was through getting in touch with that and kind of finally opening up that portal of emotions. I was, like, corked for so long. And so I think the writing lets me kind of pair those two, where it's like, it's analytical in a certain way, but it's also emotional. [00:23:03] Speaker A: So question for our listeners who might themselves be autistic or some of these themes might even just be resonating for them. They may not have a diagnosis, and we can talk about diagnosis. And there's, you know, it's not always necessary. But what do you do? I'm. I'm curious about, like, when you're first meeting people and, like, just getting to know folks, do you. Do you lead with. Do you tell people or. Or do you have any kind of strategies that you've kind of maybe learned recently or have noticed that you have employed in the past when meeting other folks? [00:23:42] Speaker B: I mean, I guess it depends on, like, I'm not likely just going to be throwing it out to random strangers unless it comes up in the context of some sort of conversation. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Well, and I guess, too, like, you're not someone who ticks or, like, has maybe visual presentations of it. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I might. You know, let's say, though, if I'm out at a place that's pretty busy, And I'm trying to talk to someone and it's sensory overload. Then I might bring it up and be like, oh, could we go over there? Or I have to put some earplugs in. You know, I might. In. So in context, I might bring it up. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:18] Speaker B: But I mean, who knows? Sometimes maybe I would bring it up in some random way, too as part of my autism. Like, well, just kind of as a throwaway comment. [00:24:27] Speaker A: Maybe try to get ahead of it or. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, but at the same time, it's. It's not necessary. But it could also be. You know, when I probably bring it up is if I think. I think I've developed a bit of, like, in the same way you develop gaydar, like an autism radar. [00:24:44] Speaker A: Totally. [00:24:45] Speaker B: So I feel like I probably would bring it up if I suspected that they might also be autistic on the spectrum somewhere. [00:24:51] Speaker A: If you're out at a show and you're two people in the booth while everyone else is on the dance floor. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah. If we're in our introverts corner, if we're both putting our earplugs in at the same moment. [00:25:03] Speaker A: What a. [00:25:03] Speaker B: What a. [00:25:04] Speaker A: What a fun meet cute. You look over, you're putting your earplugs in. Hey. [00:25:09] Speaker B: Okay. I like that. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Okay. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Another thing I wanted to mention is leaning into alone time. And just like, I don't think I've ever celebrated alone time as much as I do now. I used to maybe judge myself for wanting it or think that I should be like, you know, with people, there's oftentimes they'll be out at a coffee shop on my own, and I'll look up, and I'm like, most other people here are here with other people, and they're all chatting, and I'm okay with that. Like, I'll almost have a moment to be like, wait, is this weird that I'm just here alone? And then be like, nah, you know, because. And half the time I end up talking with people. There's, you know, it ends up being social, but it's also. It's also almost like I'd like being around people, but not having the responsibility of the other people sometimes. And so you're just like, people watching. You can, you know, pipe in if you want to here, there, but it's kind of all up to you. Like, you have agency in that moment. And so, yeah, I've never. I've never celebrated alone time so much because I really feel like, at least in my experience, it is. Like, that's when I Recharge. [00:26:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's how I feel. Like group running. I want there to be people who are talking. I don't want to talk. I'm too tired. I'm running. I'm just focusing on getting wherever the heck we're going and not dying. [00:26:31] Speaker B: But you want the. [00:26:32] Speaker A: But I want to be in the conversation and to. And to like be a part of it, but I don't want to contribute. [00:26:38] Speaker B: So funny. Just leeching off the conversation. [00:26:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I must listen to too many podcasts. I'm just like, tell me a story. [00:26:44] Speaker B: Tell me a podcast in my ears right now. So funny. [00:26:50] Speaker A: Resources. Or like, maybe if just like, yeah, I can post. [00:26:53] Speaker B: We can add the place that I got diagnosed if anyone wants, because they'll do diagnoses for. For people that aren't children. And it's really a combination of a, like a qualitative interview where you answer a bunch of questions about your experience and then you also afterwards fill out a bunch of quantitative questionnaires which are all help in their diagnosis. And then just like a kind of a debrief afterwards to tell you where you landed potentially on the spectrum. And yeah, I mean, I, I don't think I realized how powerful the diagnosis would be. I definitely did cry, you know, when they told me, because there is also obviously grief that comes along with not understanding your own experience for so many years of your life. And you know, you kind of feel sad for that kid who was like, oh, that's why she get it right. That's why that was so confusing, you know, so that's normal to have feelings like that. And you know, you can go between feeling great for knowing, but also feeling sad for not having known for so long. [00:28:07] Speaker A: Totally. [00:28:07] Speaker B: But yeah, if anyone's curious and you don't have to even go through diagnosis, we will post a couple resources including where I got my diagnosis and Devin Price writes pretty extensively about it. And we can post, he has one book as well that's basically arguing that you don't ever have to go through an official diagnosis. Like self diagnosis is enough. And there's so many resources out there too, that we can, we can post some for you if you're interested. [00:28:35] Speaker A: I love it. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah. Your experience with all of this. It's been cool to be, you know, a passenger on your journey. [00:28:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I love having you there. [00:28:46] Speaker A: This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papienas. I'm cutting that.