Listener Questions with Nick Rovers Part 1

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're expecting a lot more from the coming out part. But now it's the big actions that are actually going to have the impact. [00:00:10] Speaker B: If you have a question I love fear, you can simply ask your trusty Dear Queer. Dear Queer. [00:00:35] Speaker C: Well, happy New Year. We are kicking off this month with some questions from our listeners. So I hope you're ready. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I hope I'm ready too. [00:00:47] Speaker C: And if you can't recognize that sweet, sweet voice, we've got our friend of the pod, Nick Rovers, on. Do you want to introduce yourself? [00:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:58] Speaker A: Thank you so much. I'm Nick Rovers. I think this is my fourth time on. I don't remember. [00:01:03] Speaker C: You might be our most common guest favorite. [00:01:07] Speaker A: Fan favorite. No. Yeah, I love being here. This is awesome. Thanks for inviting me back. [00:01:12] Speaker C: And our guest star in the corner, if you guess Dog. See any videos is Benji. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Yeah, new recruit. [00:01:20] Speaker C: Well, shall we just jump right in? [00:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. I've got some questions for you too, as well. Just to throw a little, you know. [00:01:29] Speaker C: Well, why don't I warm up and ask you first? [00:01:31] Speaker B: I think you should. I think you should. [00:01:33] Speaker C: Okay, we're gonna. I'm gonna start with softball. Okay. So I have a question from one of our listeners. They want to know how to flirt with women so they know you're being gay and you're not just being friendly. It's rough out there. [00:01:47] Speaker B: This is the eternal question. [00:01:49] Speaker A: I'll field this one. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Okay, perfect. I mean, yeah, this is such a perfect question because it's the eternal question. Yeah. And it's such an easy trap to fall into. Sorry, we just had the cutest little growl from Benji. I mean, I gotta say, I struggle with this too. So I don't even know if I'm the best person to ask this question to. What do you guys. Maybe you guys need to throw out some advice first. [00:02:22] Speaker C: I think being friendly is flirty. [00:02:24] Speaker B: It's true. But that's a good point. [00:02:27] Speaker A: I think when you are friendly and you know you're flirting but you're still unsure if people. The other person knows you're flirting. As long as you're being that friendly, engaging and warm, open self, you, it might bamboozle them. And they're like, oh, this person's probably flirting with me. Even if they just thought you were being nice at the start. But leading with that energy is going to at least open a door to it potentially going there on a future encounter. Like, it doesn't have to be. I'm hitting on someone at a bar and I Want them, like, sleazy pickup lines. I think as long as you're leading with that friendly energy, it will eventually become apparent. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. [00:03:02] Speaker A: If the contact remains multiple times. [00:03:04] Speaker C: And I think, too, dropping some subtle hints is always a good vibe of being like, oh, yeah, like, single life. Well. [00:03:16] Speaker B: Or like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Or just responding to something in a way that's like. In a way that's flirty is like. But maybe not all the time, but, like, throwing that in there so that it's like, it does open that door. Yeah, yeah. [00:03:30] Speaker A: Compliments is a big one, too. Like, if you. Even if you just lead with things that are charming and friendly, but also complimenting them in a way that's like, maybe a colleague or a teacher or a boss wouldn't compliment someone in that way. People can make those distinctions even after the fact. They might be like, oh, yeah, they really talked about my looks or something about me in a way that was a bit more than friends kind of thing. And then they can do with it what they want. [00:03:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:58] Speaker C: What about even making a joke about it? Like. Like just going straight at it of being like, oh, my gosh, flirting with women is like, how do you like. [00:04:08] Speaker A: My flirting so far? [00:04:10] Speaker B: How am I doing? Scale of 1 to 10? [00:04:14] Speaker A: And is this. Is this listener asking because they don't know that the other person is queer? So they don't know. [00:04:19] Speaker B: I guess, being received, I guess so it seems like that it's not like it's a friend that they already know. It's like someone new. And they just want to make it apparent that, hey, I'm like, flirting with you in a gay way. Like, I think you're really cute. [00:04:31] Speaker C: Talk about all your queer friends and clubs and gay shit. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:37] Speaker A: That's a tricky one because I think that's just over. Every generation has had to be like, okay, I'm talking to this person. Are they gay or not? Do I signal or not? [00:04:47] Speaker B: And there's really no harm, though, in just, like, asking them out for a coffee or something, or just something that's pretty innocuous but still shows that, like, hey, I'm interested in you in some way. And they have the option to. Or, like, asking for a number or like, their Instagram so you can follow them and then maybe see you. Maybe you can get hints as to what. What, you know, sexuality is too, and then. And then pursuit. But it's also up to them to, like, communicate back, yes or no, or what their interests are. But there's no, there's never any harm in like putting yourself out there and asking. [00:05:17] Speaker C: And I think you just have to be okay with rejection of like, like, I think like, you know, putting it out there and like saying, oh, I'm interested or dropping those more overt hints. You need to be like comfortable and confident that like a no is okay and like they might not be interested is also okay. They're straight. Totally valid. Like, just, yeah, be, be ready for those. And I think those things, people who can put themselves out there is also attractive. [00:05:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:49] Speaker A: I think the difference between my 20s to 30s as well was just that you can be a lot more unapologetic about it. And instead of saying, hey, do you want to go for coffee with me sometime? Be like, hey, can I take you on a coffee date next week? Use words that are just a lot more confident because it demystifies and it makes it look like, yeah, just passing up a great chance. Totally. [00:06:09] Speaker B: There's more clarity there to say something like to actually insert the word date in there. That's a great point. Yeah. [00:06:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Then be like, oh, I, I don't, I see you more as a friend or I actually am straight, but I'd love to still go coffee with you if you want to have like a chat or I'm really liking. I want to be your friend. Like you'll, you'll know it's, it's a two way street whether you're going to date or get in a relationship or anything. So you can put what, what you put out there and wait and see if it comes back because people are, People pick up on these things quite well too. [00:06:37] Speaker B: On my list for. One of the things on my list for 2025 was taking long shots. So I think we should just all like, you know, this listener can just aim for that too. [00:06:46] Speaker C: Amazing. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:48] Speaker C: This is kind of in the same vein, so I'm going to roll right into this next listener question. What to do when you're attracted to your friend? Do you tell them, shoot your shot or hell no, dummy, don't ruin everything and make it weird. [00:07:05] Speaker A: I think there's a fourth option in that you can think, okay, if this person hates me because I betrayed a trust or I, I bamboozled them, or they think that I manipulated them and just to wait for my moment to strike or something. If you're worried that they're going to have that reaction, then I think it's probably just leave it as it is. But. Because if you know your friend well, but if they're a newer friend. You met them in a peaceful or in like a platonic way, but you trying to take it to the next step. I think it goes back to my last point. Just lead with that confident language and the worst you're going to get is a no. Because you already kind of trust that that relationship is stable. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:43] Speaker C: Do you think it's like, what did this person say? Don't. Don't ruin everything? Like, I don't think it's necessarily a ruining event. [00:07:52] Speaker A: I think it's lower stakes than that sometimes. And if it isn't, then they're maybe not even the best friend to begin with. [00:07:59] Speaker B: I think it's also one of those things where, like, the listener might feel some urgency around it to be like, well, like I should ask now, or like, as though they might disappear or something. I feel like sometimes we can feel some urgency. Yes. Or that too. Right. But like, there's nothing wrong with just letting that dynamic develop and see, like, you're still getting. Either way you're dating or your friends, you're getting to know someone. [00:08:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:25] Speaker B: And it can. You know what I mean? It can end up in any. Exactly. It takes the pressure off. But it's funny because I was gonna ask. This was gonna be one of my questions for you guys. So. So now we're addressing it anyways. [00:08:35] Speaker A: But I have lots of experience with that. So I, like. A lot of people started as friends and then tried something else, and then it just became friends again. [00:08:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:44] Speaker A: And a lot of people started as dates or hookups or whatever it would be. And then they. It just became friends. And it's happened a lot on both end. And it's. It's fine because I think the connection was there. It's just whether you want to add that one extra part to it, which can be huge. I'm not understating how important that part is. [00:09:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:00] Speaker A: Or how risky it can be. But I think if the connection is there, enough trust in yourself that you're not going to ruin everything. Dummy. You're going to. You're going to be fine. And it's. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:10] Speaker A: It's okay to explore and try and then be like, oh, that didn't really work for me. [00:09:14] Speaker B: And. [00:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that's really common in the gay community too. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think it's also really good practice and just like communicating where you're at and your intentions and how you're feeling and like having difficult conversations. It's just another example of one of those moments and the More you do it, like, the easier it'll get. Right. [00:09:32] Speaker C: And that's on being gay. [00:09:34] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:09:37] Speaker C: Did you want to lob a question or any of yours in this kind of thing? And friend. [00:09:43] Speaker B: So this is another friend one. But it's not about crushes. It's the idea of, like, reciprocity. [00:09:50] Speaker C: Okay. [00:09:51] Speaker B: And what do you do when you feel like you're always the one, like, reaching out or really, like kind of keeping a friendship afloat? [00:10:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:02] Speaker B: What do you do? Do you keep doing that? Do you pull back entirely? Do you do something in between where you actually kind of address it? [00:10:11] Speaker A: I can speak to that one. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:13] Speaker A: That's like my. That's kind of my resolution this year is I'm deeply committed to letting people miss out on me. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:20] Speaker A: I've seen that on a video before and I was like, oh, that resonated really well. So I have. I'm usually the plan maker. I'm usually the one rallying everyone for the. The big party, the New Year's, the pride. I'm just kind of that force in a lot of people's lives. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:34] Speaker A: And I've taken a step back from it because I've noticed that it's. It's not feeding me the same way that it has. And I do have some friends that I found, like. Yeah, I definitely put in a lot more effort. I don't always need a yes. Whenever I extend an invitation. It can be a no or maybe. But I also just. I have people in my life that I know a. Oh, let's plan another time. Or let's see. Is kind of just a. [00:10:57] Speaker B: A push off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:10:59] Speaker A: And other people, it's like, no, I can't. But I am free next Wednesday. Are you? Yeah, they, like, they asked three follow ups. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Totally. [00:11:05] Speaker A: So I'm just. I'm feeding into more of those kinds of things. And the people that I've found that reaching out to me to try and make those plans, I basically, I'm matching energies. [00:11:12] Speaker B: I guess that's the. That's the thing. [00:11:14] Speaker A: Match energies. And there's nothing wrong with those people. But we actually did a whole episode on reciprocity, too. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:11:20] Speaker A: But it's. It's. Yeah, be. Be exactly that. Be reciprocal. If you find you're getting 5%, put in 5%. So you don't feel bitter or jaded. You don't feel bitter or jaded about the disparity. What's the word? [00:11:35] Speaker B: Just a discrepancy. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Discrepancy between the efforts being Put in. [00:11:39] Speaker B: See, I do wonder, though, like, if have. Have either of you actually ever addressed it? And I wonder if is there. If there's a way to address it that doesn't come off as, like, that isn't kind of off putting to the other person if you were to be like, hey, this means, like, it means I really want to get to know you more. I'm enjoying getting to know you. But, like, I, I do feel like I'm like, how do you ask that without it coming off as, like, as the other person being like, oh, well, I'm not doing enough. You know, Like, I don't know if it's possible. [00:12:07] Speaker C: Yeah. Because, like, usually in those types of circumstances, I lean towards, you know, model the behavior you want back, but if you're carrying all of that emotional labor, there's no incentive for the person to, to pick it up. [00:12:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's kind of calling them out on their poor behavior. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:12:24] Speaker A: No, but it comes down to the confidence. [00:12:26] Speaker C: Instead of calling them out, it's like calling them in. So if they ever do reach out and even if it's in the smallest way, be like, oh, my gosh, I love that you plan that. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:12:36] Speaker C: And so you're like, reinforcing positive reinforcement. [00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Psychology. [00:12:41] Speaker A: Not that you're training anything, but it's, it is, it's. It's expressing a boundary that you have in your interpersonal relationships of what you want back. You're, you're, you're putting out the energy that you want. They've seen it a million times because they've benefited from you making the plans, making sure they're free, matching the calendars, getting all that stuff done. So it's. Yeah, I've actually told people, I've been like, hey, yeah, I want to see more of you. Like, I'd love if, like to hear. Hear from you too. And then you sit back and you observe and you wait. And it's not manipulative or anything, but you just kind of. [00:13:10] Speaker B: Yeah, you don't. [00:13:11] Speaker A: You said your piece on it and now let it play out naturally. And sometimes that's just the way it is. But back to. You said what you said about, oh, am I, Am I off putting. Whatever. I mean, I get a lot of advice from the Internet, but the other one was you can't say the wrong thing to the right person. [00:13:26] Speaker B: True. [00:13:27] Speaker A: So if you're saying, yeah, hey, I've noticed there's some dis. And they're like, defensive, and immediately. They probably weren't that close to them Anyway, they saw you as an option and it's fine. [00:13:36] Speaker B: Rather than them being like, oh, my God, God. And never wanted you to feel that way. Like, this means. This friendship means a lot to me too. Yeah. [00:13:42] Speaker A: If I said that to either of you, like, hey, I've noticed I haven't been seeing you around a lot. It's. Is there anything you want to talk about or is it just you're busy? It would be immediately, like, no, like, totally. [00:13:50] Speaker B: It'd be reassurance and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:13:52] Speaker A: You completely have those nerves. And I wouldn't even have those nerves asking at that point to either of you either, because I would know how that. [00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah, there'd be no question. What else you got for us, Lauren? [00:14:01] Speaker C: Okay. [00:14:01] Speaker B: And thank you to the listeners that did submit. I know some questions. That's so nice. [00:14:06] Speaker C: Okay, this is a. This is a big one. Oh, okay. So this listener uses she. Her pronouns. I've always known I was queer, but I've been with. Been with my husband for 20 years and didn't see a point in quote unquote, coming out since I had a hetero passing marriage. I just turned 40 and through lots of therapy have come to the realization that I'm a lesbian and came out to my husband several weeks ago. It was so sad and terrible because I still care about him so much. He's a great father and husband. Neither of us have brought it up since. And I hate that it seems that he is burying his head in the sand. I thought once we spoke, I'd be closer to living independently and authentically. Thank you. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Wow. [00:14:51] Speaker C: I think this is as much as just like wanting to share as it is a question. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, not feeling of being that, like, isolated, kind of stuck because they've said their truth. But then it feels as though he's not able to kind of fully acknowledge it or move with it yet. And, I mean, the listener should keep in mind that this is news to him, like, very fresh. And she's been thinking about it for a very long time and being able to process it with this therapy and stuff. And so she's further along than he is. [00:15:27] Speaker C: Totally. [00:15:27] Speaker B: And he's going to be behind, like, every step of the way. So she should take, you know, take pride and solace in the fact that she knows and she's making the steps that she can, but it just might take a while for the rest of the people in her lives to catch up with it. [00:15:49] Speaker A: It's also important to. For her to recognize her own expectations in this is she expecting him to ask a million questions? Is she expecting him to set her free? Is she expecting him to be completely okay with it? Like, she has to be honest with herself and what expectations she has because it sounds like she's frustrated with the burying the head in the sand, the silence, and him processing what is she. What would be the best response that he could give you right now? [00:16:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:14] Speaker A: And manage those expectations. [00:16:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe, like, she's got to think about what she does want as the next step and. Or the next steps be like, okay, well, and then, you know, set a time to. So, you know, when can we talk about this again? You know, it's. It's on my mind. I know you've probably been. Your mind's probably going, you know, mile a minute dealing with it as well. Like, when can we talk about what we can do moving forward? That. And that might make her feel better, too. Whether it's like using the word separated or using a word, you know, or maybe they start living a little differently, even if it's within the same home or being able to have conversations with her kids or whatever it is the next steps that make her feel like she's getting closer to where she wants to be because no one else is going to drive this for her. He's not going to drive it. So it's really going to. It's really going to have to be her figuring out those next steps and then having conversations to compromise with. Like, okay, well, how quick can we go? Or what, you know, what are you comfortable with, too, without going backwards. [00:17:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:20] Speaker C: Well. And I think, yeah, what she says is, you know, once we spoke, she thought she'd be closer to living independently and authentically. And I think the authenticity. Authentically, peace is important. It's like, we. She's certainly already taken that step by telling him. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker C: But maybe it's, you know, being out in her community and talking to him about that and bringing him into what that might look like for her individually, him, individually, them as a couple, if they stay together. Because she also says independently. [00:17:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point about the community, though. Like, maybe depending on where she lives, she can find a support group for, like, queer or questioning women. I know that we have that in Toronto, which I went to when I was early on. Yeah. 519. And so, you know, it's just like, where women come who are at all stages of, like, just questioning or fully out and just finding people, or maybe it's an online community that she can just have These conversations with. To feel like she's connected, but like, she. She is living authentically by even speaking. Even speaking her truth. [00:18:25] Speaker C: We hear you. [00:18:25] Speaker B: Yeah. To her husband is like, the biggest step she needed to make in this is to, like, admitting it to herself, figuring it out herself, and then being able to speak those words to, like, significant other people in your lives is just, like, the biggest hurdle. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:42] Speaker C: And I think, too, a thing with any. Not just, you know, coming out or folks who have transitioned or, like, entered into any new stage of your life or identity, you can feel like, oh, I've said this thing, and there can be this, like, expectation that everything's going to fall into line and it's going to feel so validating and every. But it's. It's steps forward and step back. It doesn't. It doesn't happen all at once. [00:19:11] Speaker B: No. And you're getting other people's feelings that you have to navigate and that are getting thrown at you and that can feel heavy and that can slow down your process. But it's all a part of the bigger process of, like, you getting kind of out the other side because, you know, it's affects. It affects other people, too. [00:19:29] Speaker A: That's exactly. She's. She's been in control this whole time of. I never saw a need to come out. I'm okay with this. I'm gonna plan what I'm gonna say. All right. I know. I'm now ready to talk about, like, she's been in control. And now what you say this part. Yes, it's very difficult, but I don't think that coming out is the hardest part. I think it's the living authentically. And now. Okay. Taking the actions that are difficult, navigating the responses or the whatevers. There's a lot more variables where she has been in control now. And it sounds like, with the language that I heard, she's. She wants kind of imminent action, and she. She wants it. She wants some changes to be seen. [00:20:05] Speaker C: Yep. [00:20:06] Speaker A: And that's the hard part, and that is the actual living authentically. Okay. Do you have the courage now to choose yourself for once as opposed to not choosing yourself this whole time? I feel. And at your own. At your own speed, at your own pace. But I think you need to make the actions to make you start feeling like you're not stuck still, because you. You're expecting a lot more from the coming out part. But now it's the big actions that are actually gonna have the impact, I think. [00:20:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Wow. Well, thanks for. That was a great question. [00:20:34] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for sharing. We've got some more questions, but I think this might have to be a two part. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Yeah, let's do that. [00:20:39] Speaker C: Um, why don't we take a break and then we'll catch you next week. We also just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge all the amazing people in California who have lost a lot, and also all the beautiful people who are stepping up for their communities and are affected by the wildfires. We see you and yeah, we just hope everyone is staying safe and finding the good where they can. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papienas. [00:21:14] Speaker B: I'm getting that.