Queer Ultimatum: Our Recap and Spoilers

[00:00:01] Speaker A: I think that was the biggest betrayal of the whole season. If my girlfriend got a matching tattoo with someone else. [00:00:14] Speaker B: If you have a question I know. [00:00:19] Speaker C: Fear. [00:00:22] Speaker B: You can simply ask your trusty Dear Queer. Dear. [00:00:39] Speaker D: Welcome back to Dear Queer. We have special guests today. Do you want to introduce yourselves just a little bit? [00:00:47] Speaker C: Hi, I'm Dev. Who are you? Lauren's almost white. Half wife, Half white, half fiance. [00:00:56] Speaker A: I'm Haley. Pronoun she her. And big fan of the pod. [00:01:00] Speaker D: Yeah, most people. If you've listened to any previous episodes with them on, well, you'll know that they're returning guests and we simply had to have them on to do a queer ultimatum recap. [00:01:13] Speaker B: We're bringing in the big guns today. [00:01:15] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Okay. So have we all. [00:01:20] Speaker D: Where are we? [00:01:20] Speaker B: Is everyone caught up? [00:01:21] Speaker C: Yes. [00:01:21] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Oh, you better believe I watched those episodes the second they dropped. [00:01:25] Speaker C: You better believe Haley was texting me every day, being like, are you caught up? Are you caught up? Can we talk about it? [00:01:31] Speaker A: The tattoos. I think I just texted you that with no context. [00:01:35] Speaker B: What do we think of this year's cast? Or even just overall thoughts and feelings before we get into the nitty? [00:01:41] Speaker C: Well, famously, Mal helped with casting, so I didn't know that I liked it because Mal did it. Anything Mal does I like, so I can't complain. [00:01:51] Speaker D: I kind of wish that they cast people who were maybe a little bit older maybe because they're all under. There's only one person who's 30 and everyone else is under and like, I just feel like a 25 year old. That's kind of. Maybe you don't need to be worrying about getting married necessarily, in my opinion. When you're 25. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Correct. [00:02:12] Speaker A: True. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Also nervous. When you're queer, I think you get married later. [00:02:15] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:02:15] Speaker B: It's like, I don't know. We're also folks at home. Can't see, but we have like a wall of all of the contestants. Can we call them contestants? [00:02:25] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:02:26] Speaker B: And I'm looking at it and I'm just seeing a lot of long hair down gays. [00:02:33] Speaker D: Yes. [00:02:34] Speaker B: It could be queer. [00:02:35] Speaker A: It could be queer for sure. Yeah. [00:02:36] Speaker C: Well, it's just very binary. It's, it's, it's giving, like, with the exception of Kyle and Bridget, it's giving mask femme combo. [00:02:44] Speaker D: Actually, Haley, except for Haley and Pilar are both femme. Yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker A: I thought Haley and Plyer were great fun for femme representation. [00:02:50] Speaker C: Kyle and Bridget are like Enby for Enby, but the rest of them are like classic masc femme combo packs, which. [00:02:58] Speaker A: I think is kind of a dynamic that the structure of the show perpetuates like it is a show. It is queer ultimatum, but it is about the heteronormative structure of institution, of marriage. So within that constraint, I think they did a decent job, but could always be queer. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Always be queer, even. Well, I know their host. She took a lot of flack this year. [00:03:23] Speaker D: She did. Yeah. [00:03:25] Speaker B: And I think it was so evident that if you've also watched the finale that AJ gave, which honestly turned my opinion a little bit. [00:03:33] Speaker D: Same, same. [00:03:34] Speaker B: Because I was feeling a little bit like, can we just have a fucking queer host? But I did like the points that AJ made about it being that bridge. And there were some. There was some meat on that. [00:03:47] Speaker D: I think so too, because otherwise it could just be like, oh, that's just a queer show. Like, if it's all kind of like, if even the host is queer, then. And then straight people may not even be interested in watching it. So I can see AJ's point too, in being like, this is the bridge showing that, like, you accept us too and you understand that, like, love is love is love, whatever. It's like you're showing that everyone can have interest in our lives and it's all the same. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:11] Speaker B: And we also need to just, like, I mean, having more allies and people showing up in all of the ways. [00:04:18] Speaker D: Especially now, is great. [00:04:20] Speaker B: I need to be a little bit less of a hater, is what I thought to myself. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Okay, you've changed my opinion. I was really like, there's enough queer talent. What are we doing at the straight house there? [00:04:30] Speaker B: 100% is. But maybe just put the queers on. [00:04:34] Speaker D: The straight shows too. [00:04:35] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Great point. [00:04:37] Speaker C: I was fine with her being. I was fine with her being big up until she said, I'm just all about love. And then I said to myself, shut them. Could you not be a classic straight woman being like, I'm just like a huge ally for the community. Like, just be quiet, take your ups, walk away. Yeah. Also, I will say that Joel Kim Booster is the host of what's that show called? Housewives Housewife Hotel. Yes. So whatever it's called. Housewife Fall in Love Manor. I don't remember what the show is called. All I remember is that Joel Kimbooster is the host. I only watched it because Joel Kim Booster is the host. And so maybe we should just be only queer hosts on straight shows. Only straight hosts on queer shows. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Okay, I love that. [00:05:22] Speaker C: And then you get enough double dipping that things will accompany me. [00:05:25] Speaker D: I love the switch up we should. [00:05:26] Speaker B: Also say a caveat for this show. If you are listening to our episode. Hi, aj, Marita, Bridget, Kyle, Megan, Dana, whoever. Host. Host lady. If you don't like what we have to say, come on the pod. [00:05:45] Speaker D: Just saying. Spoiler alert. We're going to talk about all of it to the end, beginning to finish. [00:05:51] Speaker B: All right, let's get into it. Yeah. [00:05:53] Speaker D: Okay. Are there any things that really stood out to you about the season or about particular people from the show that felt unique to you or different to you or that you just really, like, kind of got behind and you feel it deserves some. Some attention? [00:06:12] Speaker C: Okay. Not a hot take at all, but I just feel like Bridget didn't get enough air time. I think she, they, she, she, they, she, they, she, they. She didn't get enough, like, yeah. Space. And I think that I. I think, first of all, when Lauren asked me in on episode one. Okay, which one's the cutest? I think Bridget's the cutest. [00:06:29] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker C: And I think that she didn't get enough time. And then she was, like, all being quirky in the finale, and I was like, we didn't even get to see any of that. We didn't get to see your life together in your trial marriage. We didn't get to see you being quirky or weird or creative. Like, we didn't get to see any of those things. And that sucks. So, yeah, Bridget did come on the pod, because I want to hear you chat. [00:06:49] Speaker D: That's a good point. Also, fun fact, apparently she's really good friends with Gabby. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Oh, my. [00:06:55] Speaker D: The crossover, right? [00:06:57] Speaker B: Also welcome on the podcast. [00:06:59] Speaker D: But I wonder if. I mean, the editors probably just all leaned into the drama of the other, you know, crossover couples. [00:07:06] Speaker B: They just were so all about aj, Mel, Megan, Dana, Haley, and it was. [00:07:11] Speaker C: Like, well, it's always the messy ones. They just. They're just covering the messy ones. But I do think that, like, I don't know, like, Marita and. And Britney got quite a bit more airtime in their little friendship. True, like, intimate friend romance vibe, which I honestly wasn't anti. I thought they treated each other really well and handled it really maturely. [00:07:30] Speaker A: I think that kind of leads into a theme generally for this season that I noticed, which was just there seemed to be genuine growth for basically all. [00:07:40] Speaker B: Of the folks that seemed like the focus. It, like, felt more honest this season of, like, we're not just putting you in this chaotic situation, but, like, there are aspects of this chaos that can actually, like, you can work on yourself and, like, shine a Mirror up to the stuff that you're doing well or not. [00:07:57] Speaker D: Yeah. And it felt like most of the. Most of the people came in with the intention that it was like, no. My trial marriage is meant to develop myself and to see those things that I can grow and actually just really figure out if I want to be with my partner or not, rather than, like to just fool around with someone else. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Yes. You know something I thought that was super queer about this season? Is them all describing what sex was. [00:08:25] Speaker D: Yes. [00:08:27] Speaker B: And the. And the many definitions. [00:08:29] Speaker D: It goes to show you how different all of our ideas can be, though, just based on what they all said too, and how different they were. [00:08:37] Speaker C: I feel like this comes up. I don't know. Like, I have definitely had friends be like, oh, yeah, we hooked up. And then assumed in my mind that meant what I feel like hooked up means. [00:08:45] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:08:46] Speaker C: And then later to find out that they just kissed and I'm like, what? But to me, yeah, that's just a smooch. [00:08:52] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:08:52] Speaker B: That's not hooking up or steamy makeup. [00:08:55] Speaker C: Or like a steamy makeup. I think that all of us have. I think we should have to say right now what our definitions of sex are. I'm going to just. Elena's. Elena's squirming because I want to talk about the nitty gritty of it all. I want to be just as awkward as those people. [00:09:08] Speaker D: Let's do it. [00:09:09] Speaker C: Okay. Google. [00:09:10] Speaker B: Okay. I think what separates maybe like a steamy, touchy feely make out and then pushes it into sex in my brain is just like, soon as you got your touching genitals or like. Yeah, as soon as there's genital contact, I think you're slipping into sex. [00:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good one. [00:09:31] Speaker B: But if you're like, over. I think if you're over clothes and like making out, that's just dramatic. [00:09:36] Speaker A: That's making second base, third base. [00:09:39] Speaker B: Are we doing bases? [00:09:39] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know what the queer bases are. [00:09:41] Speaker D: Bases is not a homemade. Bases is the line for you. [00:09:44] Speaker C: We could reclaim bases. Baseball is gay, so drop ball. [00:09:48] Speaker B: True. [00:09:49] Speaker D: Yeah. I would agree. Like any. Anytime there's. There's the under the clothes. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Once you're under the clothes. [00:09:56] Speaker D: Contact. Maybe that's a better way. Yeah. [00:09:58] Speaker B: Not me getting like technical and being like when the genitals. [00:10:01] Speaker C: No, it's for sure. It's for sure genitals, though. Because if you're under the clothes and it's just to like to have a little titty moment. That's not. That's not sex. To me. [00:10:11] Speaker B: I agree. [00:10:11] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:10:12] Speaker C: To me, that's. To me, that's just a little bit of, like. That's part of the me fooling around. That's more fooling around, I think the curve. [00:10:21] Speaker B: If you are listening, please go away. [00:10:23] Speaker D: Please cover your ears for a few minutes. [00:10:26] Speaker C: I don't know. She asked me what scissoring was the last time I saw her, so I'm just. I'm just gonna say that she's probably listening. Hi, mom. And keep listening. Yeah, no, I just. I genuinely think k. Let's recreate the queer bases. I think that. Forget the bases of it all. I think there's. There's make out steamy makeup or like, make out slash smooch. Yeah, steamy make out. [00:10:48] Speaker A: Which is like, with hands. [00:10:49] Speaker C: Which is, like, with hands. [00:10:50] Speaker D: Groping. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Groping. [00:10:51] Speaker C: Yeah. I think then there's like. Like, almost like, I don't know, like, fooling around. Like, there's like, this kind of other step other than steamy makeup, which is, like, the dry humping of it all. Maybe some titties are involved, like, whatever. And then there's, like, anything. To me, underneath the clothes involving genitals is sex. [00:11:12] Speaker A: Agreed. [00:11:13] Speaker C: And yet I think oral sex is the most intimate. To me, the most intimate form of sex. So not that there needs to be definitions underneath sex, but I feel like some of these folks on Queer Ultimatum were talking about oral as the only thing that sex is. [00:11:27] Speaker D: Right. [00:11:27] Speaker C: Which I found really interesting because I understand that in some senses, like, oral sex is the. To me, the most intimate form of sex, but it's still sex if it's not involving oral. [00:11:37] Speaker D: Yes. [00:11:37] Speaker C: But I just found it interesting that they, like, really focused on that. A lot of them were, like, trying to get around loopholes with each other. [00:11:42] Speaker D: Totally. [00:11:43] Speaker C: Just through whether or not it involved oral. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Well, I think they were talking about emotional boundaries, but framing it as a conversation about sex. When they all seemed okay, for the most part, with the fact that there was, like, kissing and more. But it really seemed like when it was approaching. [00:11:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:57] Speaker A: Intimacy and emotional boundaries. That's when, understandably, there were feelings. [00:12:00] Speaker D: Do you guys think that the sex playlists are in enough evidence to prove. [00:12:05] Speaker B: That great cue that happened? [00:12:07] Speaker A: I think I would have said I had receipts. Not gonna lie. I would have been like, got him. [00:12:11] Speaker B: That is the gayest thing ever. And it's so relatable. [00:12:14] Speaker C: The gayest part about it and the part that I literally cackled at was then when someone was talking and Haley was like, yeah, There were steamy songs on there. And then someone else was like, I don't remember who was like, there weren't really sex songs in there. It was a sad breakup playlist. And I was like, what is queer sex songs? [00:12:31] Speaker D: More than anxious, sad, longing songs of it. [00:12:37] Speaker C: Yeah, it's yearning. If you're not banging to a song about yearning, I don't know what you're banging to. Haven't we all banged to Charlotte They Wilson? [00:12:43] Speaker D: Charlotte they Wilson? [00:12:44] Speaker C: If you're listening to this, every queer in the world has banged to your music. It is not sex music. It is just yearning in its most raw, unadulterated form. [00:12:53] Speaker D: That was Dana, I think, trying to defend it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she's 25 too. [00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Seeing their ages is so young. [00:13:00] Speaker D: I was about to say who I found the most annoying, but I don't think that's a nice place to start, so I won't. I feel like on these shows, too, is a great opportunity for a partner to witness how their partner is amongst other people. And I was kind of surprised that Brittany wasn't more like, hmm. This is kind of interesting that so many people felt like AJ was, like, really leaning into them hard. [00:13:32] Speaker A: I think that Britney got a lot of validation and affirmation off camera. Like, I think those times when AJ went and talked to Britney. [00:13:41] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:13:41] Speaker A: I think Britney got everything she needed to know that AJ was 100%, like, leaving with her and that she was into engagement, because I think otherwise. If they had done kind of a Megan and Dana or Mel and Marie kind of situation and not, like, acknowledged each other, I think then Britney would have, like, had a very different experience. We would have seen a very different experience. [00:14:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker D: Like, if AJ had paired up with Marita in the end, because that was the one that was seemingly most kind of sexual in terms of their flair. [00:14:11] Speaker C: I also think, like, at the end in the last episode where they're like, oh, it's just AJ being aj I. Part of me gets it because, like I said to Lauren in the car last night when we were debriefing pre debriefing this, I was like, I genuinely feel if Lauren was on the career ultimatum, that Lauren would be flirting with everybody, and then everybody would be like, oh, my gosh, every Lauren loves everybody. Like, not necessarily explicitly, like, sexual way, but, like, I know Lauren to be a flirt. We go out and Lauren flirts with people, but it's not, like, because they want to get with someone. It's because they just are, like, an enigmatic, fun, cute person. Who. That's how they show affection also, even in friendship. And so I think it's like, if we were on that show, I would just look at it and be like, well, that's my man. And I feel like, honestly, Britney was just like, that's my man. [00:15:01] Speaker D: I think that it was just kind of like a. [00:15:02] Speaker C: Cause often with those people who are very outwardly flirty, they have an inner landscape that only the person that they trust actually sees. [00:15:09] Speaker D: True. [00:15:10] Speaker C: And that's how I experience Lauren is like, yeah, there's this flirtatiousness. Then it's like we get our own connection that is outside of that. I feel like Britney kind of was by. By simplifying it. It was just like, that's just AJ. [00:15:21] Speaker A: Being AJ which is a sign of a secure connection, I think. I think that actually made me, like, believe in their partnership more. That was her response. [00:15:29] Speaker B: I also think AJ Was like. That was, like, in the group setting, in the, like, showy part, but then very much wasn't acting on it. [00:15:38] Speaker A: No. [00:15:39] Speaker B: And I guess, like. Like, I think it's just, like, a bit of also ego and, like, I want to make sure that, like, going in, going into one of these shows, I think would be, you know, there's like, pressure and ego and sensitivity around. Oh, my gosh, is there going to be someone else even interested in me? [00:15:54] Speaker C: I know. [00:15:55] Speaker B: And so making sure that that happens, I think was their kind of focus for, like, validation and that kind of thing. [00:16:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that really stood out to me watching it, too, was just having such compassion for these people being, like, for the beginning part of the episode or the series when they have to be chosen so wrong. That's so, so stressful. [00:16:13] Speaker D: Yeah. You want to have options also. [00:16:15] Speaker C: I don't want to be mean, but I was actually never bothered by AJ Very much because I was way too bothered being. Being bothered by Mel. [00:16:21] Speaker D: Oh, my God. Like, I couldn't. [00:16:24] Speaker C: I, like. I'm sorry, Mel. I'm sorry. I'm sure you're a good person, irl, but on tv, you do not translate. And I just. I didn't like the vibe. And I was. I actually was like, I could see through aj. I was like, oh, you're just being kind of, like, a lot, but you were probably a good person. With Mel, I, like, actually couldn't find the center. Like, I couldn't figure out what the redeemable part was. And that's probably not very kind. I'm sure that, like, this is a show, so, like, I'm sure, like, the people in Mel's life, love her, and. And that she's a great person. But, like, on tv, I just couldn't. I couldn't get past her, like, front. [00:16:59] Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, I feel like. [00:17:03] Speaker B: A lot of walls. [00:17:04] Speaker D: A lot of walls. And. Yeah, just like, not having maybe enough kind of maybe not even trusting herself enough to then, like, be in a relationship with someone else and probably wanting this validation from other people, but then actually not wanting to, like, commit to that or reciprocate. So I don't know. But I have to say, even watching the reunion, I felt bad for Marie because you can tell she's still so angry. [00:17:31] Speaker C: Yes, that. [00:17:32] Speaker D: So angry. [00:17:33] Speaker B: That was like she was sitting and just like. [00:17:37] Speaker D: Yes. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Vibrating on anger. [00:17:38] Speaker C: Can we talk about. [00:17:39] Speaker D: It was a year later, and it was a year later, and she still had that same level of anger. [00:17:43] Speaker B: It was intense. [00:17:44] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:17:45] Speaker C: Can we talk about Brussels? [00:17:46] Speaker D: Yes. [00:17:46] Speaker B: Have at it. Lead us. [00:17:49] Speaker C: Come on. [00:17:51] Speaker A: They're just Brussels sprouts. [00:17:52] Speaker C: And I'm sorry. Just because you teach your partner how to cook Brussels sprouts, somehow you have, like a. You have a trademark on those Brussels sprouts for the rest of time. [00:18:00] Speaker B: Let me tell you. I've got some recipes that came from past relationships. [00:18:04] Speaker C: Yeah, no shit. We all do. We just. [00:18:05] Speaker A: Thank you. They're delicious. I think Marie is still, honestly, of the whole cast, she's the only one that I think seemingly came out of this kind of brute, like, worse off maybe than she went into it. Hopefully she's learned and kind of found some healing or found some clarity from it. But everyone else, halfway through, like, after the first drop of episodes, I was like, oh, this is. I don't know if I can watch part two. This seems just to be too painful. And all of these people are just in really bad situations. But then by the end, I think it really kind of pulled it out. Really pulled it out. The growth. And, like, even if I disagree with some of their decisions, they seem to all have, like, landed except for Marie. [00:18:46] Speaker B: And I think Ashley, too, a little bit. And that's true. [00:18:49] Speaker A: That's true. [00:18:50] Speaker D: Well, no, I guess Ashley and Maria. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Mean, I think Ashley and Marita were so not supposed to be together that they. They were still in. Yeah, that maybe the not nice part of a breakup, but I'm glad they weren't together. But Marie was in the petty part of a breakup when, like, the littlest things that your ex does, you just make into a. You feel so righteous about it. [00:19:08] Speaker D: Oh, so true. [00:19:10] Speaker A: She hasn't moved on. [00:19:11] Speaker C: Then you say that to Your pals. You don't like. [00:19:13] Speaker D: You don't say that to me. [00:19:14] Speaker A: You don't bring that dawn to you with. [00:19:18] Speaker B: Yeah. With Ashley and Marita, literally, the very first episode where I was like, okay, who. Who's not making it? And it's like we saw them have one conversation together and we're like, those two are not supposed to be together. Even their friends showing up, they're like, everyone's like, no, sweeties. [00:19:33] Speaker D: No. [00:19:33] Speaker A: I also think they had. Obviously they were talking about, like, Mare was talking about, like, big gestures. I don't think they had any sexual chemistry. [00:19:41] Speaker B: No. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Which I wonder if that was something they weren't talking about on camera, but maybe was an issue. Yeah, but was like the physical aspect and not just the kind of romantic jesters or whatever. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Okay, so as of the reunion, the folks who are together still are. Dana and Megan, Kyle and Bridget, AJ and Brittany, Haley and Pilar. I'd love to know. Do we. Who. Who's going the distance? [00:20:12] Speaker A: Aj, Britney, Hailey and Plyer. [00:20:14] Speaker B: Is that consensus? [00:20:16] Speaker D: Who'd you say? A.J. and Brittany. You don't think Colin and Bridget. [00:20:21] Speaker A: I think that they're. I just don't see them actually getting married, to be honest. [00:20:26] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:20:26] Speaker C: I will say that, like, astrologically, they're a really good match. Leos and Aquariuses famously do very well together. [00:20:35] Speaker B: So Kyle is a Leo and Bridget is an Aquarius. [00:20:39] Speaker C: Yeah. And Leos and Aquariuses do really well together. It makes complete sense, though, that they said that they're both highly type B and, like, can't figure out who to clean. Because I can tell you right now, if I lived with a Leo, and I'm an Aquarius, if I lived with a Leo, I would never be doing anything other than out in the world, dancing, hanging out, going to shows. I would just never do the adult things. It is, like, Lauren's Taurus energy that makes me adult. So I will say that I think that they are a good match. Astrologically, they might stick it. I don't know. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Maybe there's some star signs in there that might help, like rising and. [00:21:17] Speaker D: Yeah, we need to know more. But what I found, just to sort of backtrack for a second with Megan and Marie in their own relationships. For them, too, they were the ones that, for me, it was most obvious that when they returned to their, like, trial marriage with their ex partner, you could see them revert. [00:21:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:21:40] Speaker D: Out of whatever they had learned from their. From their trial marriage with, like, the strangers, you know, like, the other people, like, Megan came out so strong. And then you just saw her shrink. [00:21:49] Speaker B: Yep. [00:21:50] Speaker D: And be like. And just like, backtrack. And then Marie, too, like, well, mind you, she just had a bad kind of trial marriage, but I thought she had maybe learned that she need to kind of stick to her guns a little more. But then you saw her just, like, trying to convince Mel that Mel is good enough and deserves love. And she's just trying to like, you're good, you're good. I love you, I swear. But, like, you can't convince someone of that. And I think Marie was just hoping she could, like, convince her that she deserved her love. Like, I don't know. It's just. It was interesting to see them both kind of, like, probably revert right back into whatever patterns they had had previously, 100%. [00:22:30] Speaker B: And especially with Megan and Dana, you. [00:22:33] Speaker D: Could literally see the. You could. [00:22:36] Speaker B: The conversations Megan was having with Haley. You could hear Dana. It was entirely a script from that. She's like, this is what my partner wants me to say. I know I didn't love you. Like, there was love, but it's like, girl, we watched the same show. You were saying you were literally in love. Falling in love, love, love, love. [00:22:58] Speaker D: The fact that she asked for Haley. [00:23:00] Speaker C: To apologize when she said that, I literally went, are you. Are you okay? That is on, like, also, Haley's reaction was, like, perfect. Yeah, Haley. Like, Haley literally being like, lol. [00:23:14] Speaker D: You know what? [00:23:15] Speaker B: Literally. [00:23:15] Speaker C: You know what? I don't want you ever in my life ever again. [00:23:17] Speaker D: In that conversation. In my. In my mind, I said, haley just won. Yeah, like, Haley just won this whole show. She won. [00:23:24] Speaker A: I actually think she was. I mean, I'm not biased at all because of her name, but she was actually my favorite of all of them. I think that the way that she was able to, like, be fully open to the experience and, like, follow her heart, learn, have, make a connection, but also the way that she was honest and caring with Pilar, like, that's really hard to do. And I have empathy for Mel. As a complete counter example, how Mel handled that conversation with Marie in the car when she just straight up lied. I totally understand the instinct to lie when you're caught in a corner and you've hurt somebody. But to not have, like, to not be brave enough to say the hard thing, to not have, like, practiced that skill within yourself, and even if you maybe don't get it right in that moment, to not immediately follow up, even if it's off camera and be like, hey, actually, no, I. I did do this compared to how Haley handled the conversation with Pilar. I'm remembering that one scene on the balcony, especially when she really was honest without giving too many details and was really caring, but respected Pilar's boundaries. And, like, that's, I think, why they were able to stick the lending and stay or get engaged. And they're still together. [00:24:32] Speaker B: And so we're adding. We're keeping Haley and Pilar and that they're gonna. They're gonna find their way through this. [00:24:37] Speaker D: I think they're the best. If they can handle that after 10. [00:24:39] Speaker A: Years together, like, they'll be good. [00:24:42] Speaker C: I'm only holding out hope for Haley and Pilar and A.J. and Brittany. I think that Kyla and Bridget will have a very long, maybe seven year long engagement where they don't necessarily get married. They can't figure it out. He's like, can you imagine planning a wedding in that? No. [00:24:53] Speaker B: Which also isn't a failure. [00:24:54] Speaker C: No, I'm not saying it's a failure. I'm just saying I don't know if they'll get. I don't know if they'll, like, stick a long marriage. I do see. I do see Hailey and Pilar in A.J. and Brittany. I also think for Pilar, the, like, bond with Haley and with Haley's family is already familial. And I think that's a huge part of, like, what a marriage is, is creating family. And I think that when you're together for that long. Ann, Pilar doesn't have a very, like, clean sense of, like, an easy sense of her own family. I think that she has that connection with Haley and Haley's family. And, like, that's. Once you have that established, it's easier to kind of get through the other stuff that a marriage brings because you already have that huge foundation underneath you. [00:25:40] Speaker D: Yeah. And were you gonna say shout out to Kyle's mom? [00:25:43] Speaker B: No. [00:25:45] Speaker D: Haley's dad. Yes. [00:25:46] Speaker B: That was such a beautiful moment with him. It was so honest because he's like, wow, this is not what I expected. This is a wild thing. But also, you are family. And I just thought that was such a beautiful gift for Pilar. [00:26:01] Speaker C: I also think it's a lesson in. Because he said, oh, we don't talk about feelings much. This is, like, weird for us. It didn't read like they don't talk about feelings often. No, it read like they were all very comfortable showing up vulnerably. And I think what I thought when I watched that scene was that it's a good reminder, like, my. My mom's side of the family, which is the side of the family that I like, you know, most emotionally, like, connect with and divulge with. We share everything, every little gory detail. And I think that that is a practice. But I also think that you don't have to have that in order to be vulnerable. And I think that sometimes people are so afraid of showing up vulnerably with their family members. And when they do it, often it's often good. Like, it often helps connection. And I think, like, it was a nice little demonstration of. Obviously, Kyle's mom and Kyle have a relationship where they are vulnerable with each other and they talk and they're open, and that's great. But I also think that it just goes to show, like, if you don't have that relationship with your family, like, try, like, just try being vulnerable. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Especially if it's basis of love. [00:27:03] Speaker C: Of course it comes. It comes from a good place. [00:27:07] Speaker B: Anyone have any thoughts on Dana and Megan? [00:27:10] Speaker D: Oh, dear. [00:27:12] Speaker C: I mean, Dana's so young. [00:27:15] Speaker D: Dana's so young. And you can just feel how much she wants to just, like, twist Megan's arm. Often she just feels like she's. I don't know, like, what was nice to see with Megan and Haley was. And Megan voiced this was like, Haley gave me the space to want to lean in, want to figure this out with my family and want to be stronger, whereas Dana was just, like, applying pressure on her. Like, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this. And I don't know, I just worry. I don't really feel like they're. [00:27:50] Speaker B: I thought Dana, like, the arc through the. To. Through until the reunion. [00:27:56] Speaker D: Oh, maybe to the reunion. [00:27:57] Speaker B: I feel like there was certainly. It seemed like a lot of reflection and growth in, like, seeing. Having to see themselves back and actually, like, articulating that. I also will say for Dana, I thought her match with Mel was a really good one because I don't think anyone else would have been able to, like, call Mel out so. So many times. True. Like, when they met up for the. I don't know, after getting back with your original partner and, like, being like, this is what you're saying. No, it's not that. And I was like, oh, that's really good. [00:28:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:27] Speaker A: I think Mel definitely, like, got something out of Dana and Dana must have. I mean, they obviously had a strong connection. I do think. I can't remember, was it Mel who said at the reunion that they kind of brought out or enabled each other's, like, worst decision making? [00:28:41] Speaker B: Best and worst. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Or like, yeah, best and worst. Which I think makes a lot of sense. Like, I could see why they were attracted to each other and like how they were able to see each other, which is like so intoxicating to feel seen by somebody. But also, have they made so many poor decisions. Like, can we talk about the tattoos? I think that was the biggest betrayal of the whole season. If my girlfriend got a matching tattoo. [00:29:05] Speaker D: With someone else after they had talked about getting matching tattoo. [00:29:08] Speaker B: That part, that part sucks. But honestly, I, I forget if it was Dana who said it, but one of them said that. It's like at, at some level we knew we weren't going to be in each other's life and then to have this symbol of that moment. No, we're not even buying that. [00:29:22] Speaker D: I think that's retroactive. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Retroactive. [00:29:24] Speaker D: Because I was like, oh, huh. She's trying to justify. [00:29:26] Speaker A: I think it's a thing. I think it's a thing kind of like sex to like, what. What does it mean to you and what's the definition? [00:29:31] Speaker C: I don't think they thought about it at all. I don't think they thought about it. I think they were like, you want to get tattooed? And they were like writing tattoos. [00:29:38] Speaker D: They were like writing letters and crying to each other over having to. [00:29:42] Speaker A: The letters I feel fine about. [00:29:43] Speaker D: No, but I mean in the context, the tattoo, in the context of when they had gotten in this like emotional kind of departure, you know. [00:29:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I did. [00:29:50] Speaker C: Really, I really thought that Dana, like, I thought I liked her showing up in that final EP and being like, this is a nice bar for which to have a mirror into like how much growth I need to have. And like seeing myself on screen through these episodes reveals to me that I have a lot of work to do and I want to like keep working on myself and Megan saying, like, I actually see that growth already and like, I can see how you've changed. Like, I liked that moment. And I think that it's very indicative of being 25. Dana is so early in her self actualization and like, just think of how much work and space and time goes into, like developing your own sense of self and confidence and kindness and like all of these things in relationship and alone in your 30s and in your 20s. It's like she's got along. I actually think that she is doing pretty well for where she's at. I don't think I would have that level of self awareness at 25. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Especially if your partner had a family that wasn't acknowledging or accepting of you and your relationship. Like, I have been really fortunate to not have that experience, but I can imagine it'd be really hard, and it would kind of, especially at that age, probably eat away at your sense of security and a bit of your sense of self, especially. They've been together for, you know, several years, so I think they talked about that, but I think they talked about it more in terms of how it impacted Megan and less about kind of what that has done to Dana and how she shows up both in the relationship, but also in the world and as herself. [00:31:26] Speaker B: We just need more of these shows so that for all of our critiques and ideas about it, it's like the. More examples and pictures of queer relationships. Messy, not messy, all of those things. It's like we need so much more of this type of content. [00:31:46] Speaker C: Queer Love Island. Queer Temptation Island. Queer Bachelor. Queer Bachelorette. [00:31:49] Speaker D: Queer Love is blind. [00:31:51] Speaker C: Queer Fear factor. [00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah, Queer. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Actually, you know, what I want is a queer ultimatum. But, like, Golden Edition. You know how they have, like, the Golden Bachelor, like, older people. [00:32:02] Speaker D: Yes. [00:32:03] Speaker A: I feel like we don't. We have, like, no representation of age diversity of older queer relationships. Like, we have a lot. [00:32:09] Speaker C: I'll just cry. That's the thing. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:32:11] Speaker C: Because the old. [00:32:12] Speaker A: That's true. [00:32:14] Speaker C: The golden series is just too emotional. And a queer golden series would have all on the floor. [00:32:20] Speaker D: I love it. [00:32:21] Speaker B: What do you got? Give us. [00:32:23] Speaker D: I can't. My brain. [00:32:23] Speaker B: Give us a nugget. [00:32:24] Speaker D: I can't. [00:32:24] Speaker B: Alen. [00:32:25] Speaker D: I can't. I don't know. [00:32:27] Speaker B: No more shows. [00:32:28] Speaker D: What's that? [00:32:29] Speaker B: We shouldn't have. [00:32:30] Speaker D: Too hot today. My brain can't do it. [00:32:32] Speaker B: That's okay. [00:32:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:34] Speaker A: Would you go on the Queer Ultimatum? [00:32:36] Speaker B: Hell yeah. Excuse me, fiance. [00:32:39] Speaker C: I'm kidding. [00:32:40] Speaker D: In theory, hypothetically, I do think these. [00:32:43] Speaker B: Shows are so good for not only making you feel great about your relationships, but, like, how the conversations that spin out of it. I'm so super grateful for people who put theirselves out there like this so that we can talk shit, empathize, relate, cry, laugh, all of it. [00:33:00] Speaker A: 100%. Yeah. [00:33:01] Speaker D: And it gives us opportunities to talk about things like, well, how do we define sex? And, like, if you're with someone you're dating or partner, maybe this is a conversation you need to have in terms of, you know, defining your own boundaries around your relationship or even how you feel about particular people on the show is indicative as well, of who you relate to or, you know, who you trust or don't trust on the show is indicative, right? [00:33:22] Speaker A: Totally. [00:33:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:23] Speaker A: Echoing that. Big thanks to the cast for being vulnerable and showing their lives and giving us like entertainment and thought provoking TV. [00:33:31] Speaker D: Yeah, check your DMs because I'll be messaging you to come on the pod. [00:33:38] Speaker B: Dear Queer, this has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth and your host as always, Elena Papienis. [00:33:58] Speaker C: I'm getting that.