Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think. I think I have. I mean, I maybe like her the least.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: If you have a question I know.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: For you, you can simply ask your.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Trusty dear queen, dear qu.
So much.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Right. So this time we thought, at first we considered talking about the election, but we both realized we weren't ready yet.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: I don't want to.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: We are still processing. There's like the processing, you know, signal going on in our brains at the moment. It's a little too fresh still. So we are going to go in the opposite direction and talk about reality tv.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Honestly, our favorite subject.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: It's one of our favorite subjects. We talk about it all the time.
It's a guilty and even a not so guilty pleasure. We just openly.
I have no shame about it.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: I think it used to be a guilty pleasure for me and now I am like hardcore reality tv, specifically the Housewives is highbrow and some of our best forms of entertainment.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: It's some of our finest drama at the moment, really. Like, because it's, it's real life drama. Even though we know there's performance and we can see it. And I could call particular people out as being more performy than others. Lisa Rinna. But you know, we're still witnessing people go through and women go through like things that women go through.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Oh, 100%. And I mean, now there's more and more queer representation.
Shout out Kyle.
Literally that storyline is the whole reason I got Dev to watch. And Dev has now gone back through all of Beverly Hills. Season 1, all the Way through is caught up, is like, probably sad that they're missing this podcast.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Um, what I. So I'm, I'm on the season. I think it's season 11. I can't remember where Erica. Erica's getting divorced from Tom. And it struck me in one of the headlines that they showed it said, Erika Jayne's husband Tom is getting sued, blah, blah, blah. But I loved that it was referencing Tom in relation to a woman.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: Because it's always historically been the opposite. It's so and so's wife, so and so's wife or so and so's girlfriend. And so I just love the centering of Erica.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: There. Even though, like, I know technically she's the famous person, she's a celebrity, but he's also a high powered lawyer. People know who he is. So I love that it was centering her. Even though, I mean, not that it was centering her because of the lawsuit per se, but the fact that they were referencing him as in relation to a woman because it's like I said, historically been the opposite. Women are always, like, the peripheral figure for sure.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: And it's. I think it speaks to the power of the franchise itself. Because even just the premise of Housewives and, like, if we think about historically what that word means and how people see it, you think of, you know, the motherly figure at home taking care of the house and the family and all of that. And so I think. And so a lot of these women, initially, if you go back earlier seasons, they might have had, like, oh, some, like, hotshot husband or this and that. And it. The show has come so far now that, like, the housewives and like, like, stand on their own. Like, yeah, the franchise of it, the fame of it, the, like. Yeah, it's great. It's what we already knew about women and, like, their worth and all of that. But now it's just, like, obvious.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And actually, not to be a total nerd, but go. But the term housewife before industrialization wasn't a thing. It was just housework. Because the majority of the work that men and women did, obviously very heteronormative world, the women that they did was always either in the home or on the land associated with the home. And it wasn't until, like, we got basically homes being industrialized, people starting to buy products, that those things ended up replacing the work that men typically did in and around the home. And it left the work for women.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: And in fact, it made them have more things to do, bigger houses to clean, more food to make. Baking was started to be a thing. Like, so it became women's work. But previous to that, it was something that was shared by both sexes in the home.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: I love that. Well, I think too, with the franchise Housewife, they are in on the joke. These women have wine companies, brand deals.
They're the furthest thing from that kind of historic, or not even that historic, per you view of what a housewife is, which I. I fucking love. Like, go off.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Get it. Yeah. I also love how men are not only so peripheral in the show, but how they are very, like. What's the word? Very obviously unwanted in certain cases where it's like they're. They're at the side of the dinner table. None of they're. And yeah, they're the cooks. They're the. Exactly. Harry's doing. Harry's being the cook. The chef, Mauricio is just at the corner of the table, barely participating. PK tries to get in an argument on Dorit's half, and everyone shuts him down, like. And then Aaron tried to do that with Aaron and Denise. Same thing. Unwanted. Like, this is not welcome. This is women having conversations and you are not welcome here. This is our thing.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: Which I kind of love.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: It's so good. And it's like, not. Not only is that the case on the show, but it's also was my experience, like, my first entry into housewifedom was like, basically when I lived in. In la. Like, a group of pals were watching and they're like, we just get together and, like, you know, watch. I think it was the Bachelorette or house, like, you know, at the time. And that was like, the way it was just the excuse to hang out. But it's like. And drink wine and whatever and be with your friends. But now it's evolved to the point where, like, we're watching it and, like, I mean, we've watched it together and we, like, pause the show so that we could, like, break down what is happening on, like, a societal level of psychologically there. The springboard conversations that happen from these women being on display is just, like, phenomenal.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, you know what, this is something I need to do more research on. But gossip, the idea of gossip being negative. Connotations around gossip, I think have always have come from the fact that it's seen as something that women do. It's this idea of, like, talking. So I think it's one of those things that has been given a negative light because it's something that women do. It's, like, been looked down upon because it's not seen as a man. Something like, within a man. Man's realm.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: Not to get nerdy back on you.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you know more than I do?
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Because, yeah, gossip is actually, if you go back far enough, it was, like, integral to our evolution as a society because people used gossip to know where the, you know, watering holes were or where the good hunting areas were, which people to avoid, who was dangerous. And it was actually this thing that helped us evolve as a society.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: I love it. Look at that. And look at us evolving even more right before your very eyes.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Okay, so what in the housewife world or. Yeah, let's. Let's stay in the housewife. In the housewife world. What. What show? What? Or.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Oh, I'm in hard. I'm hardcore Beverly Hills.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: You're hardcore Beverly Hills?
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is. I'm Die Hard. This right now. I need to see it through to the end. I need to see how this all what and what. So you're I think I'm season 11. I think it's season 11. Yeah.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Which honestly. Okay, so this show has been on for over a decade now, which is like, also plays into itself, which is so amazing because now they have footage and like stories like these women have history going back, some of them over 10 years. It's like.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Which is so.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: And now feeds itself.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: Like it's. It used to. The show used to just kind of be its own thing, but now it's like. I don't know, it's like, I'm not. I'm not sure I'm explaining what my point is.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: But.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: But I know, I think I know what you mean, like about the fact that there is this documented hip of the show and the relationships and the dynamics. And I think that's also part of what's so interesting about it is that we see, you know, especially with the Richards sisters, there's years when her and Kim aren't good. There's years when her and Kathy aren't good. There's years when like they're in and out. And that rings true to people's relationships, often with family. Right. There's things that get in the way of those. But then at the same time, you see, ultimately everyone still loves each other. They're just like, because of the human condition, we can't always get along.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: You know, but it doesn't change the fact that there's love there. Just, it's like our own wounds and our own insecurities and our own, you know, max out capacities or whatever that gets in the way of peopling people being able to actually connect the way they want to.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think. Oh, you said something interesting as well when we were talking about this. I think we were housewife Evangeline to Spam and how.
Oh, what was it?
My brain? Do you remember which part I got distracted?
He's a baby boy.
Oh. When I wanted to talk about how like this the stuff of like being in or out of the show.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, I mean, it's fascinating when they bring new characters, new characters on, new people on.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Do you like that we call them characters characters?
[00:10:55] Speaker A: I mean, it's like, I know they're real people, but they are deliberately bringing new people into their circle because they're a new character.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: But. And yeah, it's like also they don't have a choice in who these people are. But then there's also still this like idea of like, oh, yes, this is like a two degree of separation friend. And we are this friend group. And they are, because they're connected by this thing that no one else is experiencing for sure. But then they also aren't. And it's like there's this whole, like, culture that I think is just super fascinating within each, like, year or era of housewives around, like, the rules between different franchises. Like, I mean, you're in Beverly Hills. Should we talk about Vanderpump?
[00:11:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I have to say.
Lvp Lisa. Short form.
I mean, I was pleased at her downfall.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: I must say, because it just suddenly became, you know, people became unable to ignore the fact that she had. She has set people up historically. And she never wants to look like her hands are dirty. She cannot apologize. She has no self awareness.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Like, and she won't let, like, her whole self be in it.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: To me, it's like she breaks the rules of, like, hey, if it's talked about in something, then all bets are off. Like, they can have. And like, there are things that are off limits, like kids or whatever, but once it's in, it's in. And she could not handle that.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: No, she couldn't. She was more than happy to give everybody else, like, to drill them with 20 questions.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: But could never open up about almost anything, basically.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Like, the amount of control that she wanted is just too much.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: And that's why she, like, that was her ultimate downfall. Because she couldn't handle her perception being. Not being imperfect.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Yes. Which is why she has spin off shows where she's the, like, figurehead person in charge, whatever.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: She's vaguely relevant.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: Well, and then even I started. I mean, there started to be other things that made me really see her more clearly. Like, she made a pretty transphobic comment about Erica.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: And in that moment, I was like, also just saw the discrepancy between the appearance. She loves being given a tiara during Pride and being praised for being so queer friendly. Yeah.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: It's.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: But then she makes a transphobic comment. Like, you're not that person that you pretend to be.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: No. It's like what serves her. What serves her image. It's just like, oh, this is all so calculative.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: And like, look, I understand this is a show and entertainment, but the rest of the women are putting their real lives to a degree and to when they are filming. Yeah. On tape. Like, we have seen. I mean, if we're on Beverly Hills, we have seen deaths, we have seen births, we have seen marriages form. We have seen them devolve. We have seen lawsuits. This is real stuff. This isn't like. To, like, bring it back to highbrow stuff. This is people on display in their flaws and warts. And she couldn't hang.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: No. And you could see other cracks in her image.
Like when her. When Ken would say terrible things about her friends, and she'd just be like, don't say that. But, like, laugh. Because she wanted him to say it. She didn't disagree with it. She didn't say, don't say that about my friend.
And they'd call them terrible names. And I was like, okay.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: This is actually the true self coming out is like. You're very quick to say to call people, like, terrible names. It'd be actually quite hateful.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: I mean, I just also love how, like, I love witnessing people's insecurities and attachment issue or. Attachments.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: Let's come through. Right. Like, there's. And it's always. There's always people who are on the. On both sides of the spectrum. So it's like. Like, for example, with Erica, we had Teddy not being able to handle the fact that Erica was not warm to her. Even Dorit, too. Dorit was like, what? Like, trying to win her over. You see people trying to work so hard, which is a totally, like, you know, anxious attachment thing.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: Totally. And then it's like the directness, they, like, crumbled under it.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Yes. They can't handle. And they feel so personal. They feel so hurt by it. And then we see this happening later, too, with Sutton and Crystal, because Crystal doesn't give a fuck.
And Sutton's just, like, getting angry about it and almost just, like. Because she can't handle not being liked by her. And so it's just so fascinating to see and like, Kyle breaking down at anything. Like, she. I feel like she's getting actually more easily triggered in some of the later.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Maybe as her life becomes a little more distable. They're not what she, like, planned.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: It's, like, quicker. Yeah. Mind you, they also always show us when they're drinking a lot, which I don't love.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: But, yeah, I think initially it was like, fuel for chaos. But honestly, I don't think they need it anymore.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: No.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: And also, there's lots of folks who have drinking challenges and issues and histories with addiction and, like, all sorts of stuff. I almost would rather they go the, like, love is blind and dating show where they can only have drinks on dates.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Right. I know, but it's always, like, you know, boozy dinners or whatever. Parties. Yeah.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: I don't love it.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's. You get the full. I think why I love Housewives so much is because you get the full range of human emotions and experience on full display. And we like to think that if we were, we would never do those things or behave in the way that these people behave.
But, like, I don't know, if the camera was on 247 and, like, I'm sure there'd be moments where my defensiveness or would come up or inner child stuff or my ego and things would get inflated. And I think that's what's, like, so beautiful about it, is because, like, even though we are so removed from them in terms of, like, class and lifestyle and all of those things, that there still is that, like, I don't know, like, connection. Yeah, I guess.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: And interesting about that, too. I find it's. It's the fact that you can't actually be performing all the time.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Like, as much as you want to be, like you said, there's going to be times where something's triggered and, like, the truth comes out. Right. And the real emotion comes out. Another thing that I love about the show is witnessing the broken telephone that is life. Yes.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Go.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Just, like, she said this, and I'm like, dude, she did not say that. But then that becomes a big issue because they said this. They said this, and you're like, that's not actually what they said.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: And they have it all on camera. So, like, I mean, if someone came and said what like I said, I'm sure it would be wrong.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Like, you cannot.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: You can't. And it. It just, like, sticks to whatever inner narrative they have.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: So then it just. It morphs. It confirms whatever their fears are about themselves, and then that becomes what they're so, like, deeply hurt over and then needs some sort of retribution about. Or it becomes like, eight conversations later or eight arguments later, they're, like, still trying to work out the truth of it.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: It's really interesting, too, to watch early seasons or when new people come on and they haven't quite figured out this game yet.
So there's a new era of New York Housewives, and they just had their first season, and now they're starting season two. And so you get, like, they're so fixate. I just started season two, and they're so fixated on things from the past season of, like, this was said and that and that. It's so much she said, she said.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:45] Speaker B: And it's because of that broken telephone, and they're Getting so stuck in the mud. Whereas they could just be like, to quote Lisa Rinna, own it.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Oh, my God. Lisa Rinna.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: And they would be just free. Like.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think I have. I mean, I maybe like her the least because I feel like she is always performing.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Even in conflict with the whole, like, over the top, own it. Or I think you need to do, like, everything. And then she cannot like someone but still be like, oh, like effusively nice to them. And I'm like, this just. I know this isn't authentic. And. And so for her, I feel like it's very obvious that she knows she's been watched and she said it. She loves attention. She's a Leo. All this stuff. Like, so she's. I think she's a Leo. Unless I'm making that. Unless I'm assuming.
But I have the most trouble with her because she.
I don't know, it feels.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: The performance.
[00:19:48] Speaker A: It feels like. Like. Yeah. It feels more performancey versus, I'm sure. I. Like, everyone's performing to some degree.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: I think what happens is it's like they become caricatures of themselves.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: Yeah, true.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: And so. So long as you're highlighting things that actually exist, then it feels okay.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: That's something. Because I don't think the same thing of Kyle.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: For example, because I think it's maybe the amping. Like, Lisa, we're into so much amping. And like I said, it's even moments when I'm like, the truth comes out later. I know you don't actually feel that way. So, like, we can see her performing. We can see the contradictions between how she feels and what she's actually showing.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: I wonder if it comes from her soap opera days.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Maybe. Maybe.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, question, and I haven't pre thought about this either.
What would your housewife intro be?
[00:20:39] Speaker A: Oh, my God. I need to think. I need to draft that one.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: I'll have to come back into that.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. I'd have to think about that one.
It would maybe be something punny.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: It would have to be.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: I mean, so the thing that makes it great, it's like, you know, it's the two handers. It's like in the game of life.
[00:21:01] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Okay, well, we need to come up with them.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Before we put this episode up. And we'll have them in the, like in the show notes. Well, we hope that you enjoy this Little Housewives kind of levity. Escape from reality into reality.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: And if you haven't watched it, give.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: It a try, give it a go. You never know.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: And this was very inside baseball. So if you made it this far, we see you. And, yeah, thanks for listening. This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts, who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papiam.
