Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: All girls make out with other girls. That's just what we do. It's like. It's what all girls do.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: If you have any question.
[00:00:16] Speaker C: I love you, you can simply ask your trusty dear queen.
Dear qu.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: We have our guest, Robin Lacombra, back in the hot seat with us. You may remember them from our self care episode. Today we are enlisting their services to talk a little bit about bivisibility.
Welcome back, Robin.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: There are a lot of misconceptions about bisexuality out there. Like, whether it's just a phase or like a, you know, a step towards being.
Being fully, you know, gay or queer or whatnot. Gay. Gay.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Fully gay. Fully, fully. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't even know how to say that, but you know what I mean?
[00:01:17] Speaker A: Like this.
[00:01:17] Speaker C: The idea that, like, oh, they're just. They're just. They haven't figured out yet.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: It's a stop on the train ride.
[00:01:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a stop on the train ride rather than the last one.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: The toe in.
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Or that you're indecisive or that bi people are, like, inherently can't be monogamous or like there's some kind of flaw attached to it, basically.
Have you experienced these perceptions personally at all or any others that I haven't included there?
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And also internally, that's, like, one of the things that maybe took me so long to really accept myself in flight. Yeah. Who am I? Who do I like? What do I like?
And remembering. Okay, when I was a kid, I really loved Flipper, so I'm aging myself, but, like, Flipper was a show on. I can't remember what channel. And Jessica Alba was a hot teen.
[00:02:28] Speaker C: Right.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Like, such a cutie. And I got myself a.
Like, a Flipper poster for my bedroom. Like, everybody else had, like, Jonathan, Taylor Thomas or whatever. And I had Flipper. And my mom thought it meant that I liked dolphins. And I was like, I guess that's what it is, Marie. I like the show because of dolphins. And so then I got really into dolphins.
[00:02:57] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: That was easier to accept than being a team attracted to Jessica Alba.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
My mom would always just buy me dolphin figurines. And it's like, no, it's actually the dolphin's proximity to Jessica Alba that I was interested in. I loved the dolphin.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: They could put in a good word for it yet.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: So, yeah, it took me a really long time to even just in myself acknowledge. And for a while, too, it's like, oh, this is just like, all girls, right? Like, all girls think girls are hot and fantasize about other girls. Right? Because, like, girls are pretty. And, like, who doesn't find them pretty?
So I thought that that was a thing. And then I remembered university being like, all girls make out with other girls. That's just what we do. It's like, it's what all girls do. Yeah.
Yeah. And then it kept on escalating, like just what we do. The old slippery slope.
[00:04:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
That's so funny.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: And then I remember someone being like, you know, there's a term for this. It's called you're bisexual. I'm like, oh, oh, did that feel good? So I'm not straight.
Pardon?
[00:04:15] Speaker B: Well, so, like, finding out or hearing that there. You know, there's a. There's a whole term for this. Did it feel good to be like, oh, there's language for how I'm feeling? Or was that, like, a scary thing? Or. I don't want to put words. But what. What did that feel like? Basically figuring that out.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: It was both. I remember learning it being. Feeling validated in the moment, and then I buried it underground.
Like, so deep underground. Yeah.
And I would. And then I even forgot. I remember, like, when I, like, cape out came out, a friend messaged me being like, girl, you. We. We had this conversation when you were 20. Like, what are you doing in your 30s? Being like, I'm distracted. Discovering, finally, that I'm bi.
Like, you literally told me you were bi when you were in your 20s. I'm like, oh, right. I forgot. Like, I. Deep down, there was a moment of empowerment, and then I buried it deep underground because of my own internalized biphobia, homophobia, whatever it is.
Yeah. And also, like, you know, cultural context. My mom is a single mom and a devout Catholic. So, you know, there, like, there were limitations to me being able to accept certain aspects about myself because of safety, security, and acceptance. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a. It was a both. And it was like, oh, yeah, cool. Like, this is a new label. I just thought all straight girls do these things.
And then a, like, deep burying of it underground.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: I can. I mean, I totally understand that. And it makes so much sense. People might not understand why, you know, once. You know, why wouldn't you kind of live like it or whatever? But that speaks to the power of this. Of this internal process and all those pressures, both internally and externally, like you said, even from family and culture and religion that just make it feel like, not an option. Like, it's not an option to pursue that as your identity because that is feel so big and so huge and life changing and you don't know, like the consequences. And it just seems too vague and too much.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Totally, totally. And then I knew too that I wanted, like, I wanted to be a mother.
And the socialized ladder of relational success for folks, it's like you find a nan, you get married, you have kids. And so I was still very much unconsciously pulled by that socialization of what it would mean to be a successful adult.
[00:07:23] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like the comp head path. That's the narrative.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: And it's like at every step of that, you know, there's so much validation, like so much of our cultural, like, practices and norms around, like, oh, you'll have like a, you know, a bachelorette, a baby shower. Like, we just like, everything is like, affirm, affirm, affirm. That path.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Yes, that one path. Yeah. And I think there was extra. Now, come to think of it, I think I was extra tunnel visioned on that path too. Because my mom is a single parent and because my mom, like, there's just like lots of scandal there of having me and my sister that it felt like, I'm gonna do the family line a solid and I'm gonna take us out of scandal and I'm going to like, I may have been born from scandal, but baby, I'm not a scandal. Baby, I'm gonna like, make this right. Yeah.
Unconsciously and, and being queer, was it really part of that, that box of righteousness that I was trying to avenge for my mom?
[00:08:38] Speaker C: Do you want to do the next question?
[00:08:39] Speaker B: So, so you have this, like, coming out on social media and all that stuff. Were there any challenges you faced, like in the community or was it like, how did, how did that part feel for you?
[00:08:59] Speaker A: There wasn't any real, what I felt like backlash or anything. I think my mom for a bit was confused. She's like, but you're married and my partner is non binary.
But we like, we do look like a CIS hat couple and we have two kids.
And so my mom just was like, robin's being silly, like, what does this mean? What does this change?
And I think there was a bit of that kind of pressure, like, what does this mean? What does this change? And even between me and my partner, like, what does this mean? What does this change for us?
And it didn't. And it didn't really. There are times where I feel like, am I allowed to occupy space in like queer affinity spaces? Am I allowed Will I be questioned?
And I'm a, I know that I'm like really out there but I'm also not outgoing. Like I'm also very much an introvert and so I'm not really like out there and.
Which serves as a sense of protection cue from potential feelings of non belonging. But I definitely feel the internal non belonging when navigating queer spaces, especially if my partner comes to you, that I get like really in my head about that.
Right.
[00:10:45] Speaker C: So can you tell us a bit more about how you are able to honor your queerness within your relationship?
[00:10:54] Speaker A: Yeah, a lot of it is just speaking it out loud. Speaking it out loud, like indulging in queer media. And my kids are also non binary. So we have lots of conversations about what it means to be queer and our family is quite queer. We have chosen family that live with us and we're always. So we're always in just conversation about what it means, what it feels and then terms of relationality.
Funny that the stereotype you let in with the Leno is like bi folks can't be monogamous.
So yeah, guilty.
But it's also, I feel there's a joke that I said the other weep where I'm like, I feel poly saturated in relationship with just myself. Right. Just tending to all of the parts of myself that need attention is like, oh my God. There's so much like communicating and relational work and negotiation, negotiations and agreement making with all of my parts. Like I can't, I can barely.
I do that with my partner as well. I'm thinking of like inviting more relationship in. It's like, oh man. So how do I, how do I claim, how do I reconcile being a bi poly person who's poly saturated in a hetero presenting relationship and is also socially anxious and an introvert and doesn't like going out to places and meeting people.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Multination talents.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: But I mean it's important, just the speaking, it is so important and being visibly by and speaking about your experience because then it just lets other people know that they're also not in it alone. If they are also in a straight presenting relationship and feel unseen and unheard and unknown.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: They.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: I mean I can imagine that would.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Be very validating even to go back to our self care episode where you talked about translating things even if it's just in your mind when you said the thing about I can't even do the monogamous thing right. Or I can't remember the exact phrasing but even the fact that that's like there's this small thing in our minds that the monogamy is like some like pure or like even me saying that where it doesn't feel right, like there's some like hierarchy or something. It's like, wait a minute, no, like we can be poly even in mindset of like abundance and expansive love. And like, maybe it means like.
I guess what I'm trying to say is like the idea that, you know, there's some hierarchy between those styles. Even if we can translate that in our own minds of like, oh, no, I'm someone who lets more love and connection into my life. How beautiful is that? And like the same thing of, you know, of being bi. I think that's beautiful.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: And that one, that one connection doesn't take away from another connection. Yeah, like that you have the capacity in all of these ways. And I can imagine that again, going back to self care. Self care is even more important when there's so much extra communication required and checking in with yourself and checking in with a partner. And so I mean that that's got to be also really like on point.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah, majorly on point. One of the things that I had a hard time when my partner and I opened up our relationship.
I called it season one, season one of being poly.
It started off great and it like ended.
Season one ended with tragedy. Like Satan fit. Totally a hard. Gotta bring him back to season two.
And yeah, it's.
I recognized from season one when I reflect that I had a hard time standing in my truth. If my truth upset my partner, like I didn't wanna upset my. And then I wasn't. Then it felt like I wasn't giving them permission to be impacted by my behavior. It's like I had this people pleaser thing going on where if this is good, it means the only way you're impacted by my behavior is you're okay with it, which is not human and not possible. And so what we've been working on in our relationship is like, can we be okay with upsetting each other? Knowing that, knowing there's a difference between hurt and harm, like, that's a huge thing that I'm really teasing out is hurt versus harm. We can go so quickly to saying we're emotionally harmed by something.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: And feel unsafe. But it's like, I know my partner.
I know that I'm safe with my partner. I know that they're not going to abuse me. I know that they're not going to manipulate me. Like, I know these things. Things. And so I need to teach my nervous system, the difference between discomfort and unsafety and the difference between hurt and harm. And my partner will hurt me, I will hurt my partner. And it doesn't make us bad partners, it makes us human. And so this is like where we're at, which is why I'm polysaturated.
[00:16:40] Speaker C: It's like, whoa.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: You know, season one brought up all these parts of me to be like, okay, I have a people pleaser part, I have a like problem solver part. I have all these parts of me, this really vulnerable part that's sensitive to interpreting something as harm. And then this wise part that's like, it's okay, baby girl. Like, this is, you're not in harm's way, you are safe. So there's so much stuff and I imagine once I feel like once all these various parts of me feel more full and nourished and held insecurity within my own self, that I won't feel as polysaturated in a relationship with just me and myself and can open it up more. But yeah, the self care thing is real and I think a part of me too.
Lauren, what you were saying of like this internal understanding, like I can be poly in a monogamous, straight presenting relationship, it is, I don't have to be actively dating four people and I don't have to be actively dating folks of all gender to prove my queerness or my ability to give and receive love.
And I'm saying that out loud for the first time and I hope my parts can hear that. Like, did you hear that?
Can I hear and receive that?
[00:18:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah. There can be so many different seasons and just because you're not on the, like on the season of having, you know, other people in your relationship and things like that, it doesn't mean that's not a part of your life or it can't change. And like I think giving ourselves the ability to be like, oh yeah, this is what I'm doing now, this is serving me. This works. And also I may change my mind. And that's beautiful.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Yeah. It's actually making me think of like the ladder we were talking about for CIS hat relationships as like there's a ladder for queer relating. Like, oh, if you're a good queer, if you're a real queer, if you're, you know, it's like there's this urge to present loudly and proudly my queerness. And you know, when I, when I first really acknowledged the ways in which I want to relate to people while in this partnership, this marriage, I Felt the urgency of like, oh, quick, I gotta like demonstrate that these are not just words that I'm saying, but this is actually who I am.
Then I'm really worthy on acknowledging and accepting that I don't owe anyone my queerness.
[00:19:34] Speaker C: That's amazing.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like we have to fill ourselves up. It's all back to. Yeah, I love that like self care is just so interconnected here.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: Is there anything else about bivisibility, bisexuality that you want to add that we've maybe not asked you about?
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that it's such a tricky one because like my own bisexuality being visible to my own self took so long and I think, ooh, I'm getting this like image of like a deer in the woods, you know, it's like I want to come out. Oh, but then it's like, right, does it feel safer? I heard a rustling, I'm going to run, I'm going to run back to my straight presenting right side because it's safer or whenever. So I feel like, yeah, I just, I wished for myself to feel more invited and not questioned. And so whatever those seeds do to folks who are listening that like some bi folks who are just trying to reckon with their own selves need safe surroundings and safe surroundings aren't judgmental ones.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: Right. You need to see the open arms. Like, it needs to be a visible, felt thing. I also explain this to people too, who are like just straight people. Or I'll explain, like if I'm talking about family members and things and coming out, I forget who I explained it to recently, but I was like, when you're, when you're coming out, you like the warmth that I receive from whoever I've just come out to. Like, it needs to be amped up, like in order for me to feel that you. You know what I mean? Like, I mean with some people it just, nothing changes in a good way. But with some people, if you're not sure about how they're going to receive you in order to feel that you have been received and welcomed, like it needs to be amped up. Like those arms need to be obviously open. It needs to be felt. Like they need to go a little bit over the top because of that caution and that feeling timid about it and uncertain. So it really needs to be obvious that you are being welcomed. And so that feels like the similar kind of thing you're describing. Where it needs to be spoken, it needs to be obvious. I need to feel it.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: Even as a community, we can do better in our spaces and, like, bringing in, like, opening the doors to everyone and just, like, creating that welcoming environment, because we all know what we want deep down and crave, and so we should be putting that back out there. And, like. Yeah, I think it's just. It's so much more expansive and beautiful when everyone's in.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:32] Speaker C: Awesome. Well, thank you so much again, Robyn. It's always amazing to talk to you, and I know we will be seeing you again.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts, who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papiam.
