Dear Queer Does Heated Rivalry

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Cottage, cottage, Cottage. [00:00:09] Speaker B: If you have a question. [00:00:13] Speaker A: I know you can simply ask for. Trust me. Dear Crew de. Wow. Wow. Wow. [00:00:37] Speaker B: So if you haven't been. If you have been living under a rock. [00:00:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Over the holidays, then you don't know what we're about to talk to. But for 90% of the population, we're. We're also going to talk about heated rivalry. [00:00:53] Speaker A: We have to. [00:00:54] Speaker B: We have to. And, you know, we might not have any super hot takes if you've been just in. In a heated rivalry cave, but, yeah, we're excited to talk about it. [00:01:04] Speaker A: I didn't realize, like, I knew it was exploding, but I didn't really realize the level until I saw clips from Andy Cohen's and Anderson Cooper's like, Midnight or like, New Year's Eve countdown that they do and how they were doing an interview with Stephen Colbert and his wife was there or something. And I forget who said what, but basically maybe it's Andy. He's like, yeah, Steven, I hear your. I hear. Oh, what did he say? I hear your wife is the top or something. He said something and then he was like, but I'm a bossy bottom. [00:01:37] Speaker B: That's the only part I remember. Stephen Colbert said, I'm a bossy bottom. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And then Anderson Cooper's like, man, heated rivalry. Like, is it taking over? And then they also talked to Brandi Carlisle via Zoom. And Andy was like, do the lesbians love it, too? And she's like, it's all I can think about. [00:01:54] Speaker B: The lesbians have been watching Gay Port. This isn't new. [00:01:56] Speaker A: No, this isn't new. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Like, sorry. And to clarify, the lesbians have been watching gay male porn. [00:02:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:03] Speaker B: And that's not something new. It's just something that now pop culture knows about. [00:02:07] Speaker A: And now straight women are probably doing more, too, because I've seen lots of videos, too, of women being like, why, like, straight women being like, why did I never think of that before? [00:02:19] Speaker B: And maybe we should talk about that for a minute. Like, why? I have some ideas, but, like, why are the straight women just coming into gay male porn? [00:02:29] Speaker A: I mean, this is a good. Actually, I haven't thought about this yet. Do you have thoughts? [00:02:37] Speaker B: I think I was thinking because this is basically a romance novel. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:43] Speaker B: And it's romantic. There's yearning and lust and all of those things that go into romance novels which, you know, women historically love. And I think, honestly, I think because it is consensual and it is an even power dynamic. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:00] Speaker B: If you're watching, you know, quote unquote, Heterosexual porn, you're always kind of, like, worried. And I guess we're talking as if heated rivalry is porn. [00:03:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:12] Speaker B: Which it kind of is. [00:03:13] Speaker A: It's very explicit. Yeah. Yeah. [00:03:16] Speaker B: But it's like, if you're watching what people think of as porn, oftentimes, you know, you're not sure of the power dynamic. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:28] Speaker B: If it is fully consensual and it's like, there. [00:03:30] Speaker A: But you're right. This is all wrapped up in a romance. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And actually the other thing that came to me was that what heated rivalry also does so well is it demonstrates that sort of saying that attraction is also about everything that happens in between sexual. Where, like, they're literally building this banter and this dynamic and this, like, relationship over years. And it demonstrates this kind of, like, flirtiness and attentiveness. And I think also media has done such a disservice to straight women over the years by representing sex as like, maybe they kiss for a couple seconds and then it's right to penetration. [00:04:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Whereas there's like this kind of. It's drawn out a bit more in it and there's like, foreplay and there's like this kind of lead up in a way that straight women aren't. Aren't really presented with. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Totally. This dancer I follow on Instagram, Colton Underwear did a substack about, like, the yearning and the what's unsaid, where he talked about the quiet negotiations and the restraint and why that kind of, like, recognition matters. Basically, he said, this was the first time I saw something on television that accurately reflected what I lived through, not externally, but internally. The calculations, the restraint, the constant negotiation between who you are and what the environment will tolerate. I didn't have to interpret the character's behavior or fill in the emotional gaps. I understood them immediately. I knew why they paused when they did. Why certain choices felt safer than others. Why silence sometimes felt like intelligence rather than fear. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah. That really stood out to me as well in that. That kind of long. Like you said, the long post that he did, that notion of. Exactly that of, like, the kind of calculations, the trying to figure out how much of yourself you can show, the kind of code switching and all that. And this is another beautiful thing about heated rivalry is just how many. How many people it's spoken to. Like, I saw another post and I don't remember the name of the person who posted it, but it was a gay man saying, basically, like, this show has acted like. I think he used the word tonic because he's like, I Grew up when gay men were deeply stigmatized from the AIDS epidemic. And to see us this kind of thoughtfully and beautifully portrayed in this very normalized way too. Yeah, he was like, this was like a healing thing for me to witness, which is huge. [00:06:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's important, as with something that is so popular, I think the fifth episode was the highest rated episode in television history. [00:06:15] Speaker A: Yes. I think it beat out even Breaking Bad, their season finale. Their episode. Their, like, finale. [00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And. And so with that, I've also seen kind of some critiques and come across those things, but honestly, I'm not really. Personally, I'm not really interested in it because this type of visibility and like, cultural zeitgeist moment far outweighs any of the cultural critiques. [00:06:42] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:42] Speaker B: You know, it's like, oh, why is a men's hockey team getting this? Or, you know, any critiques you have about the time cuts or literally anything, I think people are welcome to have them, but I don't know, I'm just not interested in them right now. [00:06:57] Speaker A: No. And because you're right, it doesn't. What matters more is that we have straight people celebrating a queer romance. [00:07:04] Speaker B: I heard them talking about it on the fricking cbc. [00:07:07] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Yeah. I've seen multiple, like, like straight guy podcast. There's so. There's this hockey one, Empty Nutters, which has, I think a former NHL player. I also saw another video, literally just maybe today of these two guys just weeping. Like these straight men just weeping watching the show or like they live stream when they were. When they were watching episode five. And just like. Like they were so invested. They were so invested. And it's worth it. No matter. Like you said, whatever. Critiques don't matter, really. Because what's more important is that we have this entering straight culture, the mainstream, and having all people or like many more people celebrating a queer story. Yes. Yeah. [00:07:49] Speaker B: Although I do hope for season two, which they have greenlighted, is that we actually get to see some playoff beards and some facial hair. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Okay, good point, good point. [00:07:58] Speaker B: I would love to see some of that. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Good point. Okay. Okay. So the, like the butts wasn't enough for you need the minutia. [00:08:05] Speaker B: You know how many years passed there was no. Not a moment of time represented the queers. We be dyeing our hair. We'd be trying on. [00:08:14] Speaker A: What about the mullets though, too? [00:08:16] Speaker B: Come on. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah, good point, good point. I saw. So episode five was so epic, right? Like you said, it's, you know, like highest rated show Going to the cottage. [00:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:27] Speaker A: And, like, I bawled watching it. I was a mess. It was so powerful. And I've watched videos of, like, all sorts of people bawling watching it, and straight people, queer people, whatever. And I saw this interview with Jacob Tierney, the guy who adapted it. And did he direct it, too? I don't know. [00:08:44] Speaker B: He might. I think maybe the first. I don't know. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Okay. But anyways, he was talking about episode five and how he already knew that song, like, the Wolf Parade song. He was like, it's my favorite song. I already had the song I wanted to use. And he was saying Shane and Ilia's story was always going to be actually quiet. It's the quiet one. It wasn't gonna happen in, like, a big Bang, you know, not like Scott's does in that episode. And he was saying how he had, like, four hours of film or something to use that day for that scene. He did an hour's worth, and the camera person was like, okay, you got it. Eh? And he's like, are you kidding me? He's like, we're using all those hours we have. I'm getting every angle of this, like, every shot possible, because I wanna build it. He's like, I want it to feel like an opera. [00:09:30] Speaker B: I love that. [00:09:30] Speaker A: And it really did feel like this huge crescendo. And so I want to watch it again with that in mind to see, because at the time, it's almost like it was acting on me in that way and I didn't realize it. So I'd like to watch it again, keeping in mind how he really built it, because that's what it felt like. That's why we're all crying in that scene, because it was all the pieces coming together and just done in this, like, this epic build to this moment that everyone was cheering for, you know? [00:09:58] Speaker B: Oh, it's perfect. [00:10:00] Speaker A: So good. It's just like. [00:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it was tender. They hit all of these beautiful notes that I think people are craving, and I think it's just what it's done to show the type of con, Like, I think that they have opened the door. And so many more shows, films, podcasts, whatever, are going to be able to, I hope, walk through that door. Yeah, yeah. [00:10:24] Speaker A: And also just that episode, really, like, so Scott has, you know, kisses Kip, and then. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Spoiler alert. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry, what? [00:10:35] Speaker B: I mean, we're assuming you've watched it. We gave no recap of. [00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah, no, no, no. And I just love how it went straight to. Well, first of all, Ilya and Shane are watching that. Like, you know, there's kind of this look of like, wait, do I think what. Is what I think gonna happen gonna happen? Is this what I think? You know, and then after the kiss, the call, like, I'm coming to the cottage, which is now, like an amazing quote, you know, now is just that beautiful moment of, like, permission to be like, this is possible. Yeah. [00:11:06] Speaker B: And that's why representation is so important. That's fantastic. I think we should. We would also be remiss if we didn't talk about women's hockey. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Yes. [00:11:17] Speaker B: And it's interesting. I think part of why this story had to be told is because we actually have a lot of amazing out queer women in professional sports. In hockey, in soccer, all the sports. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And. [00:11:34] Speaker B: What'S the. Do you remember the two players who are kind of. This story. There's that couple, Julie Chu and Carolyn Ouliet, who you should absolutely go check out and deep dive and follow and. And do all the things. Cause there are. Yeah, there's. There's. There's lots of examples already there. I'm super curious what this is gonna do for the sport of hockey. [00:11:57] Speaker A: I am, too. Like you said, it's so much more open. Like, it's so much more likely that you're gonna be openly queer in women's leagues. But it's so the opposite in any male sport. Truly. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, do you. Do you think we're gonna start seeing some players come out? [00:12:13] Speaker A: I mean, I hope so. They'd be stupid not to. [00:12:15] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:12:16] Speaker A: It'd be so great. Sorry. Not stupid, but, like, you know what I mean? Like, this could be a huge moment for them to. To ride. Yeah. [00:12:23] Speaker B: You know, I'm gonna have to start watching hockey. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Seriously. Well, it's just funny now whenever you see, like, a fight breaking out or two guys talking in the. In the penalty booth, you see me just being like, do you think they're exchanging hotel numbers? You know, like, hotel room numbers? [00:12:35] Speaker B: So, I mean, it already was so homoerotic. Come on. [00:12:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Why are the straightest sports, like, the. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Most, like, homoerotic tension? They're most charged. [00:12:43] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:44] Speaker A: So it's weird. So I guess because almost like the stereotype of a lesbian would be that you would be athletic potentially. [00:12:52] Speaker B: Sure. [00:12:52] Speaker A: And then because the way homophobia works, it's kind of the opposite for the male leagues. [00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:58] Speaker A: And I did wonder, like, why this couldn't have been a woman's story. And I know. So first of all, it was a woman, a lesbian who wrote the original book or novel that was adapted into this. So it is interesting that she chose the men's leagues, although not because in a way, like you said, it's that much more charged and more kind of like homework. Yeah. Like, actually, I forget who I was talking to recently, but I was like, what I want to see next is one for men's boxing, because there's so many moments in that lead up where they almost. Are you guys gonna kiss? Like, just kiss already, you know, because they're like, literally, you know, like lips, brush, body obsessed. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:34] Speaker A: But then I was thinking, I'm like, could this. Could we have the same thing for women? And I did wonder if because film and TV has been so steeped in the male gaze historically, that it would feel exploitative or. I don't know. But there's something about that. I'm like, maybe it couldn't have been because it would be like. Well, you know, there's jokes in shows and movies all the time. Like, guys, like, wanting to watch girls kiss, like it's for them or something. And. And so there's that element of it that we feel maybe, like, too voyeuristic. [00:14:10] Speaker B: And it honestly is a part of the male gaze. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:14:14] Speaker A: So I did wonder, like, if you. We could do it for women and it wouldn't feel like how you. Women. [00:14:20] Speaker B: It would feel that way how you do it. I don't know. I think you just have it created by women for women, about women. [00:14:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it's true. It's true. And like, I guess the romance element is again, stereotypically kind of more expected between women than it is in a men's store, even though obviously that's unfair and not accurate. [00:14:42] Speaker B: Point is, we love heated rivalry. [00:14:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Another thing about the show that I didn't. I sort of picked up on at the time but couldn't identify it, was that Shane is represented as being autistic. And it's so funny because there were moments that I really related to him. Like, he'd be texting something with Ilya or saying something, and Ilya would say something like cheeky or metaphorical. And Ilya would reply very literally. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Or Shane would. [00:15:15] Speaker A: Or Shane. Yes, sorry. Shane would reply very literally. And there are moments where I was like, I've totally done that. But it didn't register with me that that was like, you know, like, meant to be kind of coming from a neurodiverse place and, like, in his kind of, I guess, special interest or intense focus on hockey. And what came to me too, was just his, like, thoughtfulness, especially in the last episode where, like, he's thinking ahead in ways to make this work and just kind of this, like. Yeah. This intense thoughtfulness that he was able to kind of put some possible future together in a very short time in his head with Ilia, you know. [00:16:03] Speaker B: And. And even that directness of. No, we're. When they were in that last episode of no, we're actually just gonna, like, we are going to talk about real things. [00:16:12] Speaker A: Totally. [00:16:13] Speaker B: And I thought that was really, really beautiful because we. We had. We got to have all that internal dialogue, but then also to have the satisfaction of, like, okay, this does lead somewhere. This wasn't just. [00:16:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:24] Speaker B: The yearning. [00:16:25] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. And the other element about Shane that felt accurate to me was like, he wasn't ever really playing games. Like, it wasn't a game to him at all. Like, and nor did he seem to want to. Like, he was always very open about how he felt, you know? [00:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Even if he wasn't out. Yeah. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:47] Speaker B: I also really. Oh, I also really appreciated the parent scene. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Oh, I know. [00:16:53] Speaker B: That was so well done. [00:16:54] Speaker A: I know. Yeah. And, like, feeling Shane's panic. Yeah. So, like, I felt it so relatable. Right. And it was also amazing how when he arrived, his dad hadn't said anything to his mom. Yeah. [00:17:09] Speaker B: It was cool. [00:17:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, he was like, okay, like, this is his thing that he can tell us about. Like, I'm not gonna go snitching, you know, even though I could. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:19] Speaker A: Heated Rivalry. Being in the mainstream now does feel like. And I think I saw someone post about this somewhere. Who knows? Was that this is almost like Heated Rivalry is like the new pink shirt test for straight women. [00:17:31] Speaker B: Nice. [00:17:32] Speaker A: You know, like, previously be like, if a guy can wear a pink shirt and not feel weird about it, then he's like, you know, you'll go on a first date with him or whatever. But. And this is the next thing is. [00:17:41] Speaker B: If he's watched Heated Rivalry and can tell you. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:46] Speaker A: So I think that's. I think that's great. [00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker A: New shirt, new test. Give us. [00:17:50] Speaker B: Give us more Heated Rivalry. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Yes. We want more. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Are we sports podcasts now? [00:17:55] Speaker A: I think we are. As long as we can. As long as we make it gay in some way, then as long as. [00:18:01] Speaker B: It'S gay, as long as it's, like, reality related or TV related. [00:18:06] Speaker A: I think we're in it. I think we're in it. I mean, we're pop culture sports guys. I also just love how Canadian it is. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:15] Speaker A: Like, when do we ever get highlighted in such a way? [00:18:18] Speaker B: I know, I. Look, let's go. [00:18:21] Speaker A: You know, the cottage, it's like, so stereotypically Canadian. [00:18:26] Speaker B: It's so. Of this area. It's so. Yeah, it just. Yeah. Well done. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I think, you know, it's elevated us in this really nice way at a time when we're kind of surrounded by shit. [00:18:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So thank you. Yeah. Thank you. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Thank you. Bring Jacob Tierney. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Thank you. Crave. Thank you, Canada. Bring us more. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Bring us more. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Great. And yeah, if. If anyone has any comments or things that we missed, just find us on our socials and tell us what's up and your thoughts. [00:18:57] Speaker A: This may not be our last episode, but heated rivalry. We'll see. [00:19:00] Speaker B: This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts, who we will bring in from time to time. Brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan, produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papienis. [00:19:18] Speaker A: I'm getting that.