Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: The moment you realize your your dad is just some guy you know.
If you have a question I know.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Fear, you can simply ask your trusty Dear Queen.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: Dear Qu.
[00:00:38] Speaker C: Welcome back to Dear Queer. Today we have on the podcast KB Brookins, who is a black queer and trans writer, educator and cultural worker from Texas. KB's poetry collection Freedom House, won the American Library Association Barbara Giddings Literature Award and the Texas Institute of Letters award for best first book of poetry. KB's memoir, Pretty, which came out in 2024, won the Lambda Literary Award in Transgender Nonfiction, the Great Lakes Colleges Association New Writers Award, and the Dorothy Allison Felice Baccano Emerging Writer Award. They are currently at the ACLU of Texas Artisan Residence and a Black Mountain Institute cheering Fellow at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. You can follow kb online at earth2kb.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Welcome KB Brookins, thanks so much for being here. First of all, congratulations on all these awards. I know. I think the Lambda one is the most recent one that I saw you posting, so congratulations. That's like, you know, as a writer, I know it's a dream come true to like have your work validated in these ways, you know. And I came across your memoir Pretty and doing my own research and my own writing, and I found it to be so candid, so powerful, exploring black masculinity, gender, trans and queer identity and all from your unique experience growing up in Texas. But for our listeners who maybe haven't read any of your work yet, can you tell us a bit about your upbringing and your experience?
What was what it was like growing up in Fort Worth, Texas?
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. First, thank you so much for having me. Always happy to chat about the work, chat about queerness and transness and all the things therein.
So I was born and raised in Fort Worth, Texas state there for 21 years of my life.
And I mean, as far as like how it was, I mean, I have a very long winded answer for that, which is why I wrote a memoir. Right?
[00:02:45] Speaker C: Yeah, we're here for it.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: I'll give give a Cliff Notes version so I'll acknowledge that my experience is not necessarily going to be the same as like anyone's right? Everyone's in Fort Worth. But I grew up in East Fort Worth, which is known as kind of like a black and Latinx side of town, mostly like historically black. So I lived in Stop six, which is a neighborhood that like had like six stops historically. And that was kind of where like all of the black folks were like relegated. And in today's times, it's like black and Latinx, pretty mixed.
And it like sits in just a position to West Fort Worth, which is kind of like rich, affluent, mostly white kind of Fort Worth. So it is a kind of very segregated city in that way.
And West Fort Worth is like where I went to college, right. I went to Texas Christian University and it felt like kind of like a different city, even though I had like stayed in the city kind of my whole life. So I would say it was a experience abundant with blackness. Right. Like I really only like was around at school, at home like other black folks. I had no questions about my blackness growing up. I think my more pressing questions were about my queerness and about my transness. Because Fort Worth is also known to be a very like religious, I mean as Texas, right. Like it's in the Bible belt is known to be a very religious place, specifically Christianity.
So I was constantly kind of pillaged with the question in my mind of like, okay, can my queerness exist here? And I have these questions about gender. Is this a place where I can like ask those questions really? And I was like a very inquisitive kid at one point where I would like to just ask like, why are things the way they are? And that wasn't necessarily welcomed. So it was struggles in those ways. It was a sense of belonging in other ways around blackness and like non belonging in the realms of queerness and transness and me just trying to figure out where religion fits into it all.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: But yeah, what were those things that you did find, if I can ask, that did allow you to explore your queerness and transness? Like were little glimmers of things or what did you find that did allow you to not only ask those questions because like you said, sometimes they didn't feel welcome. But where did you feel able to kind of explore that?
[00:05:12] Speaker A: Well, honestly, when I joined a after school poetry society in high school.
So my high school had a very robust after school program because a lot of people's parents worked until 5pm but we all got out of school at 3:30. So if you weren't in like sports or one of those other kind of things like band or choir, then you had to kind of go find something to do to stay out of trouble. And so like we had this after school program that had all of this stuff, right? Like theater club and like music production and like robotics and all that stuff, right? And also like this very, you know, eclectic, magnetic teacher, Miss Elaine Duran, ran the after school poetry Society.
And I was just really like enamored with her, she felt like one of the, like, teachers that, like, really, on the first day of school, like, I remember this experience of, like, having my hood on all day because my mom made me, like, wear the super, like, girly hairstyle that I just did not like or. Yeah. So I didn't like it. And she was only a teacher that let me, like, keep my hood on, for example, right.
So, like, she was always a very, like, inviting presence. And then also, like, I got my first group of friends in ninth grade, and they all wanted to go to poetry society, and so, like, I went alongside them because I spent, like, literally all of my free time, like, with my friends, right?
And it was almost unspoken, right? Like, it just so happened that, like, most of my friend group was queer. Right.
[00:06:42] Speaker C: It's amazing how that happens.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Like, come out to each other.
It's just, like, in a place that, like, did not culturally accept queerness. Like, we found each other.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: You know, and we were on the different spectrums of outness, right. Like, I very much was not out in ninth grade, and then, like, I had my toe, maybe out in, like, 10th grade, and then I was, like, completely out. So at least, like, all my friends in 11th grade, right?
And I think, like, yeah, those different friends had their own kind of spectrum of, like, outness. But, like, we all these days, right, like, are queer, right?
So, yeah, that was probably, like, my first place where I felt at least, like, comfortable enough to write about it, to talk about it out loud, stuff like that. And then I also think going to college, even though it was very white and affluent and weird in a lot of ways, I was very grateful to go to college for free. And at that college, they had things like spectrum, right? Like, LGBTQ club.
And, like, queerness was not seen as, like, a deficit at my college, you know, like, there were people who were out and proud going to Dallas Pride. And, like, his full work was really close to Dallas, right.
Listening to queer artists. And I went to a drag show for the first time in college, like, all of that stuff. So I think. I think those experiences definitely lifted me up and, like, just taught me that there was a path for myself that I could take that did not have to be, like, a tragedy.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: Was. Was there something specific in having those experiences that made it kind of click that it's like, not only do I want to write this story, so you have your own. Your story written down, but that made you want to get it out into the world or that felt, like, important to you in that respect, you know.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: I Feel very grateful to have had different mentors.
Exactly, like, when I needed them. That told me, like, simply that I was good at something, right. Like, I've honestly felt like for a lot of my childhood, not because it was actually true, but just because it was like, how I was treated, that I was like some kind of fuck up low key. Like, I was like, I can't do anything right simply, like, for the mere fact of like my gender or in my sexual orientation, though I was like, you know, making straight A's. I was doing all of the, like, extracurricular activities. It just felt like I wasn't doing enough. Right.
At least in like, my family's eyes. And so I had, I think it. I feel very grateful in retrospect that I had somebody around me telling me that I was good at something. And that, you know, person for me was like my high school teacher, Ms. Elaine Duran, right. Who ran the After School Poetry Society was like, you're good at this. And I'm like, great. Really, I'm good at something. Let me continue it, right?
And then in college, then it became, you know, my college mentor as Dr. Stacy McCormick, Dr. Tamika Gordon, Professor Alex Lemon, who I took, like, creative writing classes with. And also, like, Dr. Tamika Gordon was like my scholarship, like, supervisor, right?
And like, you know, those different people telling me when I really, like, needed to hear it, like when I. When I felt a bit directionless maybe like, okay, you're good at this writing thing, continue to pursue it. So I don't know if it was like I woke up one day and was like, I'm gonna do this. I have this mission, whatever, whatever. I think it was really just people encouraging me as a young person. And then that mission kind of came over time as I continued to do the literary thing and I felt how much writing really gave me a sense of purpose and gave me a sense of respect for myself that I didn't always feel and gave me a sense of responsibility. I'm waking up to today and I'm going to write something and it gives me like a, you know, direction still to this day. So, yeah, it's just gratefulness for, like, mentors. And I think, you know, that's why I revere, like, educators so much because, like, you can really, you know, change the trajectory of someone's life by simply telling them that they're good at something and encouraging them to continue to work on it.
[00:11:00] Speaker C: Just even seeing people can be so powerful. I think it's. It's so cool that you're Kind of like reaching a hand back as well to kind of shine light on other queer folks and who might be reading your memoirs or your poetry and things like that. So that's really cool that you're kind of paying it forward as well. We love that.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: As I'm writing my own memoir too, and these different essays, I can see, like, looking back at early stuff, I've written other versions of myself, right. And I know. I'm sure you, you know, you can see change in you in your memoir. So I. I'm sure you've seen this too, where, like, you can kind of. It allows you to revisit other versions of yourself. Like versions that didn't love yourself as much as you do now, didn't accept yourself as much as you did now.
So can you tell us a little bit about what lessons you've learned about that? About, like, love, self love and acceptance through either. Just, I mean, on your personal journey. And also, I'm sure it's been a part of your writing as well, that journey as well.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Like I said earlier, like, my first kind of foray into queer and trans people who are not, like, keeping that part of themselves a secret was, like, college. And it's something about, like, you know, being exposed to the possibility that, like, makes it more possible for you, right? I met the first ever, like, trans person that I met in person, like, in college when I was dating this girl who had a trans dad. And, like, I don't know, just maybe like, offhandedly said that her dad was trans and it, like, wasn't a big deal, right? And I thought he was, like, you know, cool as a fan, like, a very chill dude, you know, And I was like, oh. I kind of somehow forgot that people, like, could be this way because I hadn't met a trans person in person. Like, I'd only seen trans people, like, in media that I consumed as a kid. And, like, those weren't necessarily, like, positive or even accurate depictions, right?
So when I, like, knew that that was a possibility. And the same thing with, like, making my first, like, non binary friend in, like, grad school. As soon as I, like, knew that these were, like, possibilities for myself, I'm like, okay, I'm really curious now, you know, and, like, getting closer to that language through, like, just meeting other people.
And then, you know, I moved to Central Texas, so, like, away from Fort Worth when I was 22 for grad school.
And I.
I don't know, like, all of these feelings started like, like, coming up for me that I didn't feel comfortable exploring while I was still in such close proximity to my family. And my family's not a small family. It's like 100 plus people, like, in that same complex to the point where, like, I could go to the mall and, like, just run into one of my uncles, you know, like, stuff like that.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: So I felt very cramped, you know, and, like, needed to leave. And, like, grad school at the time was like, my ticket kind of out of that, like, north Texas area into then Central Texas. And also I had, like, recently, like, lost a friend. So I was, like, grieving, and I was just like, okay, maybe I go to therapy. Even though I, like, didn't know anything about therapy, I knew, like, my undergrad had a therapy, like, had a counseling center. And, like, I was suggested to go there after my friend passed, like, my senior year. But I was just like, I'm busy. Like, I have to graduate. I want to graduate on time, blah, blah, blah. So, like, it was just kind of not a thing that I did in undergrad. But then when I got to grad school and when I got out of kind of like the Watchful Eyes, maybe a family, I started going to therapy. And like, truly the first three years of therapy, I feel like I was just like a miss, like every, you know, appointment. I was, like, starting to remember things that had happened. Like when I was a kid, I was, like, crying more than I. Like, I'm. I'm not a crier. Like, that's not like my natural nature necessarily, but, like, doing a lot of that, you know, it felt like almost like upchucking emotions, you know?
And, like, I think that that definitely got me on the path of self love because I just started, like, revealing things and learning things about myself that I felt like I, like, had, like, suppressed for a long time. And one of those things being like, okay, I have this, like, kind of intense body dysphoria, you know, or gender dysphoria, but didn't know necessarily, like, what that was.
And then, you know, got top surgery. And then I had like, all of these kind of thoughts about, like, I've never fit neatly into this idea of girlhood, right? And that's been really apparent since I was very young. Maybe that's actually not like, the label that works for me, so on and so forth. So that definitely, like, getting closer to, like, my emotions and then getting closer to language, right? That fit me better.
Through community and through therapy definitely helped. And then just creativity, right? Like, I write, I think, to figure out even, like, what's on my mind.
And I've been that way since very young. Like, I think I've. I've kept journals or like diaries or whatever. Like since I was like seven. Because I've been a very like. Like I've been anxious since like second grade. Like I was that kid that like, would cry if I couldn't find like somewhere to sit, you know, like at playtime kind of thing. So like from a very young age I've been like, writing down my emotions so they don't feel so large and so I can like make sense of them.
And I think that that was my first foray into creativity before I started writing poetry at like 15.
And then like, really since then it's been like, okay, I am writing a poem because it's hard for me to say this out loud or I don't know the right words to say out loud or I'm writing an essay because I need to perhaps ponder on something that's happened and look at it more closely. Like that's really how I see non fiction. It's like I'm trying to make sense of the past, you know. And like, through making sense of the past, I'm learning to forgive myself for the things that I didn't know. Forgive some people for the things that they didn't know that influenced their actions, right?
A lot of, like, my memoir, I feel like, is an act of like, forgiveness and an act of like. And I think it's a display of like, refined rage. I think for like years I was very mad, you know, at the world, mad at my family, mad at myself, so on and so forth. And I. And I think, you know, the memoir as a project for me was an act of like, I'm going to allow myself to be mad about this thing because I didn't have the.
Have the luxury of being mad about it, you know, when it actually happened.
And I'm going to allow myself to see it from multiple sides, right? And like that, that is the thing, I think that just comes with time, right? Like the moment. And I say this like, jokingly to friends all the time. Like the moment you realize your, your dad is just some guy, you know, that's some guy that like, had a whole life before you and was like, figuring out how to raise you, like in real time, right? And like realizing that, you know, the you thought were supposed to be perfect, you know, like, are not so. Right?
And allowing yourself to understand that that doesn't excuse certain behaviors, surely, but it at least contextualizes Them. And that context, at least has given me, like, some comfort.
[00:18:51] Speaker C: That's a. That's a beautiful way to frame it. I think it's like extending the grace that we might want for our past selves because, yeah, it's really hard to get it all right all the time. So I think that's. That's really cool that you've been able to do that.
And I was thinking about.
I love that you listed, you know, creativity as one of those pillars, because I think it's just. There's no. It's not a coincidence that so much of pop culture and the arts is, like, is dominated by these amazing and talented queer artists. And I think it's because of the individual and so different experiences that everyone, as queer folks has had to go through. So, yeah, I think that's. That's really cool.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: And the fact that, like, we haven't been. We haven't had the permission always to express those things externally. So we go to our rooms and we work them out internally, like in our journals and on our computers and stuff. And when you were speaking about this, these three pillars too, it made me think of really, like, two parts permission. Basically, like, you have the distance from your family. The therapy is also giving your permission to, like, remember these things, feel these things. You never were allowed to before. Because of you. You're this, like, family and culture hovering over you, like, so closely in religion.
And then the creativity part is kind of like the admission as well. Or I guess that overlaps with therapy too. Like, finally being able to, like, admit the ways you feel or the ways you don't feel right in your body or how you truly feel or how you're angry and, like, so that's really powerful. And I think a lot of listeners will get a lot from that too.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:35] Speaker C: On that note, is there anything that you would want to kind of give as a kernel of advice for folks who are maybe at a different phase than you are now? Or if you were looking back to kind of tell young KB that you might share.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Large question. I think for me, the thing that immediately comes to my mind is just like, find your people.
[00:21:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: There is no person in the world, luckily, because the world is so big that, like, you know, the world is so big to where you are not the only person thinking your thoughts. You know, you're not the only person with your specific body, your mind. Like, your people are out there. You just gotta find them.
And that does take some. Like, that does take work. And that work is, like, not equal Based on, like, someone's class, someone's race, someone's sexual orientation, someone's gender. Like, because even within queer community, we have disparities like that. Right.
And I think that finding of your people could be going to a community center if you're so lucky to live in a city that has one. Right.
Like LGBTQ plus, like, community center.
And it could also look like picking up some books. You know, that's a thing that I, like, tried to do as a kid. Like, I spend a lot of time in, like, my city's public library. Luckily, these days, like, a lot of cities or counties, like, do have a public library, where it's, like, one of the only places you can go these days for free. Right. Like, you don't have to spend any money at the library.
[00:22:16] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: And, like, the library is, like, the holder of, like, kids like me who maybe don't have the funds or maybe don't have that, like, queerness and transness around them, but they can find it in books.
And, you know, ask your local librarian.
I'm having these specific thoughts, you know, like, I'd love to read a book about it. They'll help you.
They'd rather do that than check emails. I'll tell you, you know, does your school, if you're still school age, like, have some kind of, like, I love. One of the. One of my favorite things to do as an author is, like, go visit the, like, the little gender and sexuality alliances that'll be at, like, high schools these days. Like, it's really nice because my high school didn't have that.
So, like, if your high school does have that, like, can you join? Can you go to a couple of meetings? Can you make friends there and talk to people?
Many of the friends that I've made over my lifetime has been, like, in one of those two kind of nucleus. Nuclei, whatever the word is. Like, creative spaces or queer spaces. So, like, go.
I would say, like, you know, my main advice is, like, go out and find your people, whether they be in books or in person.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: Amazing.
And the last thing we want to ask you about is your segment, the Trans News that Doesn't Suck.
Can you tell? Yeah, it's a great title. How did you come up with that and what has been the response to the segment?
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you for asking. Well, truly, it's like, I.
It's a. It's a necessary thing that all writers have to do these days, which is, like, garner some kind of social media presence. Right. And I know that I wanted to, like, just feel My social media with writerly stuff and then with also queer and trans stuff. And I was just spitballing ideas with like, my social media manager at the time, and I was like, okay, trans news that doesn't suck.
And here's like, why, you know, like, we would spitball, like, you know, back to back then. I came up with that idea because I was like, okay, it feels like social media is like, really privy to like a series type thing.
And this is a thing that I feel like could be pretty evergreen. It's also like some kind of content that like, I myself will consume, which is just like, positive trans news in the age of widespread transphobia in the States and beyond. Right. It's just like a matter of, like, uplifting something that has happened that just could put a smile on somebody's face, just could, like, make them feel less depressed, less like the whole world is out to get them because they're trans. You know, like, I. I made it with, like, trans people like myself in mind.
And yeah, then I made a video and then it, like, spread much further than I was expecting it to. And then, like, I kept making the videos like once a week or so. Now I'm at like, once every two weeks. And also made as part of the series, like, a newsletter which has like 4,000 subscribers now, which is wild to say because I've only been really running it for the last, like six or seven months.
And, like, the mission has not changed. It's just like positive trans news. Right? News that I find on the interwebs about trans people across the world doing good work.
And it includes, like, political wins, it includes, like, pop culture type stuff, like trans artists to listen to.
[00:25:52] Speaker C: Do you have a favorite kind of story that you came across that you could share with our listeners, like, just a little to give like, a taste of the kind of stuff that you're highlighting and platforming.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: Sure.
The Trump administration in the U.S. sent around a, like, higher education compact to like, nine. What is it? Like, nine universities in the U.S. like, major universities, and seven out of nine of them have rejected the compact because the compact included things like, oh, you must not promote DEI and oh, you must, like, ban trans people from using, like, bathrooms that like, coincide with their gender identity.
A lot of things like that have been happening around the US where, like, people, namely the Trump administration, is trying to, like, demand that people enact transphobia in, like, public school systems and universities are saying, like, no.
So that's positive news because it counteracts this narrative of like, oh, all of These laws are passing because they're not.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. I don't know if you saw recently, it just made me think of this other kind of piece of news I saw in the queer pop culture. There's this new show on Netflix called Boots about a queer person in the Marine Corps. And I don't know if you saw this, but the Pentagon put out a statement basically calling it hot garbage. And then it was like the week after this week, since they put that statement, the viewership has doubled. And I was like, I don't know. I just think stuff like that is so great.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Hot garbage sounds great. I'm going to tune in.
[00:27:33] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like they can. They can try and go negative, but if folks like, like yourself are out there and just trying to put the positive. It just. It.
I think it's really powerful.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: Totally. Because it's all. It's. I mean, you're showing the pockets of resistance, too, which people, like you said, like, they need to see. It's not just.
We need to know that there are people resisting all these hateful policies. And.
[00:27:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: I mean, we're in Canada and we have a lot of empathy for all of y' all down there right now, and we're trying to help as much as we can from here. For what? In the ways we can as well. So. Yeah. Any signs of support I can see? I mean, it's just so necessary right now.
[00:28:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:15] Speaker C: We'll link to your social.
If you didn't hear at the top, it's Earth T O K B. Earth to kb.
And maybe we'll post some of your trans news that doesn't suck in our stories as well, so people can get some more KB Brookins in their life.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: Thank you so much for your time today, kb. Honestly, it was. It was really incredible to talk to you.
[00:28:37] Speaker C: Dear Queer.
This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts, who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papienis.
I'm getting that.
