Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: As much as we as queer people love that movie, it was designed for street people.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: If you have a question.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Have no fear.
[00:00:20] Speaker C: You can simply ask your trusty Dear Queer, Dear Queer.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Peter Knet is a writer, filmmaker and on air personality at the cbc. He started his career as a film writer at IndieWire. Since 2016, he's been working at the CBC where he's written, produced and hosted several award winning series including the doc series Canada's a Drag and the talk show Here and Queer.
His work there has garnered him six Canadian Screen Awards and since 2022, he's been the host and curator of one of our favorite queer clubs in the city. That is the wildly popular screening series Queer Cinema. The Club, which is home at Toronto's Paradise Theatre, showing all the new LGBTQ film classics. His first book about Canada Queer Rights, was released in 2011 and he is currently working on on an updated edition to be released in 2027. Welcome, Peter.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Heck yeah.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: We are super excited.
As you know, our listeners could tell from your extensive bio. It's just so amazing to see someone working so deeply in queer culture, right. And like promoting it and developing it and I mean, the Queer Cinema Club. One thing though, I love it, but I don't know the history of it. How long has it been around? What got it started?
What inspired it?
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, it's almost gonna be. It's turning four in April. It's gonna be our fourth anniversary this April. And it kind of started on a whim to a degree or maybe not. Let me go back a little bit. Basically, like during the pandemic, I feel like I rediscovered my love for movies in sort of a deeper way. I've always loved movies since I was a kid. I spent my 20s as a film journalist for Indiewire and that was basically my job to watch movies.
But during the pandemic, I really miss them in a way that I. That was very profound to me. And I just thought, I want to do something when this is all over, if this is all over, that involves hopefully not bringing people together to watch movies. And then it just, you know, made sense to me that it would be focused on LGBTQ cinema. And you know, we did the first one, which was Greg Iraqi's A Living End. It was almost sold out. And I was like, okay, well this is something people want to do. I didn't know if, like there was that much interest from the public to come together and watch old movies in a movie theater, but there was. And you know, we've done 66 of them now. And you know, it's just been such a wonderful experience just seeing how much my hunch was correct. Just because it's just so great to see all these people who love movies and come out and watch movies that are 10, 20, 30 years old and. Yeah, so like part of it was just I wanted to do something to fulfill my desire in the pandemic to go to the movies again. But then as it started, I realized that this was really important for a couple of reasons. One, I think I really wanted to show old movies that people who are older, queer people get a chance to come together and watch them again, whether for the first time in a theater or for the first time with a bunch of other queer people.
A lot of there's some movies we've shown, it's the first time I've ever watched them with a group of queer people watching. Even like Brokeback Mountain, you know, which I saw in a theater with a bunch of straight people in 2005. And it was a kind of challenging experience because you do feel the discomfort knowing that there might be sort of people around you that are uncomfortable with the content. Secondly, for the youth, every time I show a movie, whether it's something that's kind of obscure or something that I think everybody's seen, like Carol or moonlight, yeah, 70% of the people have never seen it before at all in a movie theater or anything. And so I feel like it's my duty as now an all elder ish queer, to make sure that the kids see all these movies and see them with, you know, a little introduction where they get some context and understand how important these movies are. And then, you know, it's just warms my heart after when people are coming out in the lobby and just saying, that was amazing. Was it as good as anybody said or was better than they said? I'm so glad that I discovered this.
And it's really important to me to keep movie going in cinemas, you know, continuing for the next generation, the generation after that. But it's also really important to me to bring queer people together in this way where they understand that movies are community and community building and it's an opportunity to, you know, really feel something with your fellow queer people.
[00:05:03] Speaker C: I think that's great too that you're like you're curating it for smoa, which is amazing because sometimes you just don't like, maybe these younger queer folks, they don't know where to start. They're like, sure, I'd love to see more but, like, what's good?
And then they may not know the history. So, like you said, to kind of prompt it, give context is so amazing. And then, like, we came to see Bottoms last night and, like, it is. You do get this wonderful community vibe watching it, like, with other people. You probably, like, laugh a little louder, laugh a little more.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: For sure.
[00:05:32] Speaker C: It's. And there's just the.
The sort of common knowing that comes, like you said, if you're there with straight people, it's uncomfortable potentially. But, like, we just are all in on the jokes, you know, in this amazing way.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: And Bottoms in particular, you know, it's a very new movie. It's only two, three years old. Most films I show are much older than that. So I was really kind of curious what that was gonna look like, but it sold out quicker than any screen we've ever had.
[00:05:55] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: And, you know, it was a lot of young queer women, and it was just, you know, it's wonderful to see what each movie brings in in terms of demographics and community. And that was, to me, really sort of invigorating to see that so many young people came out to watch it.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: I love, too, even when we were walking home after the screening to the subway and, you know, you spill out of a theater, everyone's kind of going back to their lives. And, like, you can overhear people's conversations and be like, oh, my gosh, and her face was so bloody. And like, you get those moments that you don't get from your couch now. It's like, that's something really special.
As, like, a filmmaker who's produced films, it's like when. When you make them, those are the moments you're thinking about is, like, the audience in the theater watching it. It's like, I love that you're bringing more people into theaters. It's the best.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: No, Yeah, I love it too. And I'm really glad that it just. That I had the opportunity to do it in the city and that we have a theater at the paradise that's been so open and welcoming to collaborating with me to make it happen.
And, I mean, one other thing is that we try to incorporate a couple other things to even sort of extend the idea of community building, which is one, we get a different local queer artist to make a poster every single time. And they're, you know, stunning, all of them. And then sometimes you have drag performers come and perform before the show. The Birdcage, for example, we're going to have someone come in and do a birdcage themed performance. And then sometimes, as we did with Bottoms, if there's enough time in the movie, short enough, me show a short from a local queer filmmaker. And this is an excellent. By the way, that's what is so fun. Testing by Andy Reid, it was called. So it was fantastic. And I felt it was really perfectly paired to that vb. Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: You mentioned Birdcage and that that film was probably the first film, like, queer film I ever saw and I saw with my parents because, you know, it had Robin Williams in it. And so they're like, oh, Robin Williams film, no problem. And it's like having those moments, I think are so powerful. Obviously, Birdcage at the time was so groundbreaking. You got to see a queer male couple who were in a committed, loving relationship. And I was young at the time and didn't really understand how powerful it is. So getting to revisit it through queer cinema and, like, watch it again now. I'm just. I'm. I'm so excited for that.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah, me too. I was holding it because it's going to be, I think, like her 67th one. It was. I wanted to do it since the beginning, but I wanted to just wait for the moment that we needed it most or something. And it feels like this winter is such a desolate time. But that movie is just really special for so many reasons. But, like, it came out of the mid-90s. It was a huge hit.
There's really been nothing like it since. The two that I think are sort of close are to Wong Fu and In N Out. But it's like Hollywood for a minute was like, yeah, we'll do mainstream gaming comedies, and then they just. They stopped.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Even though all three of those movies were big hits, like, it was very. It's very odd.
[00:08:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: I'm curious what you think some of those early portrayals of queerness in cinema mean, in hindsight, like, looking back on that.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, to me, like, in terms of just like the stages of queer cinema, because I feel like queer cinema has meant so many different things at different times, culturally, politically. To me, the two most important eras is. The first is the seventies, which just, you know, gay and lesbian liberation was going on at the time. It was a huge moment for just us even getting seen.
And there were filmmakers like Fassbender and Chantal Akerman and John Waters who were just making wild, queer, wonderful films that were. I was not alive in the 70s. I kind of wish I was, but I feel like I can't imagine going to a movie theater at that time and seeing that with probably all queer people, or at least people who were very much allies, and you're going to a John Waters movie, Gavin, you've made a mistake or you're input.
So that I think is like one era that's really important and just such a rich era, even for mainstream films like Dove the Afternoon or Rocky Horror Picture show. And then the late 80s, early 90s, I feel like sort of film was very much activism for what was happening with AIDS at the time. There was a sort of movement that grew out of that called New Queer Cinema, which filmmakers who are still very much working, like Todd Haynes and Greg Iraki, Gus Van Sant, they were making films that if they weren't directly relating to what was happening with HIV AIDS at the time, they were sort of speaking to that moment because it was just such a wild and horrific moment for queer people. So to me, those are the two eras that really stand out for being the most powerful. But really, even right now, there's incredible trans filmmaking being made that is, I think, so key and important to a making trans people feel seen, but then also making people who don't understand what it means to be trans, to actually see that. And it's not, you know, 10 years ago we were getting movies about trans people that were Oscar bait bullshit from CIS straight people like the Danish Girl or Dallas Buyers Club. But now, you know, we're seeing trans filmmakers actually tell their own stories.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: And that's.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: I think that's one of the few things that gives me hope about this.
[00:11:02] Speaker C: I was just going to ask you what makes you excited about it now and you've answered my question. Yeah, that's my answer. Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: And any, any chance you can have films that are like, from and by the people being represented? It's, it's just better.
[00:11:16] Speaker C: I don't care.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: You brought up Dallas Buyers Club, which, yeah, was kind of a, you know.
[00:11:22] Speaker C: An obvious Oscar bait role.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: What are your thoughts on casting non queer artists in queer roles?
[00:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah, my thoughts on this have really evolved over time, I think. Well, specifically to Dallas Buyers Bluff. I do not think you should cast CIS people in trans roles. I think that's just full, you know. Yeah, it's, it's not, it's not going to work for me and it shouldn't work for anyone, but it continues to still kind of be done. Although we've made a lot of headway, I think, in the last 10 years.
When it comes to gay and lesbian or sort of generally queer characters, I do think there's Room for nuance. I think I'm just going to use a very tired example at this point, but like, heated rivalry. Yeah, I don't care for the fight today. Yeah, I look tired.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: If you're playing to closeted gay hockey players, pick the two best people for the world.
Also, as Jacob Tierney very sort of eloquently said in one interview, it's illegal for them to even ask if these people are here.
So, you know, I. And I think that that's fine across a lot of contexts with sort of gay roles. If straight people or people we don't know their sexuality are playing them, I think that's fine. I do think when it comes to more like, you know, a historical movie about gay rights, maybe that's where we do have some queer actors, because I think that they bring some perspective to those roles that straight people might not have. So I think it's really sort of a case by case basis when it comes to that. Although I do think, you know, it's easier for us to say this now because there are people like Jonathan Bailey and Colin Domingo who are queer people who are playing all kinds of different roles. And that wasn't the case not too long ago. So I feel like as long as queer people are playing straight roles, straight people should play queer roles.
[00:13:04] Speaker C: And in a way, maybe the more important part is like, who's writing it, he is directing it. Because then is it just like a straight gaze situation? Like in. In terms, like in the same way you have a male gaze, like writing for women, is it more about that, you know, source of the story? Because that's where the nuance comes in. That's where the writing gets textured rather than being like stereotyping, essentially. So then the actor plays it the way it's written to be played.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I think if, like, there's a queer storyteller behind, goes a long way in terms of making me okay with whatever that project might be.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Well, I also think it comes back to too, like, I think us as viewers and audience members, we are so adept at, like, sniffing out when something doesn't feel right. And if you haven't involved queer people in the process at all, the film's just not gonna be as good.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Or, I mean, you can even make the case that sometimes you involve the wrong queer people.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: That's true.
[00:13:59] Speaker A: I think A Bohemian Rhapsody, which is a movie that I like, just hate Passion of a technically that was directed by a queer man, although that man was Bryan Singer. And I feel like, you know, you.
[00:14:10] Speaker C: Know, we come far enough to also.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: Do bad things.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Especially gay men. I feel like gay men are, you know, can occasionally be quite evil.
[00:14:22] Speaker C: We often also talk about dating on this podcast.
Do you think that a movie is a good first date and if so, what are some first date movies you would recommend? Either like contemporary or just like classics.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: Sure, yeah. I mean, I think a movie is a great first date. I think, you know, the idea of dinner on a first date is such a.
It's, to me it's, it's putting way too much on it. Movie. You're not actually talking.
[00:14:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: You're just sitting beside each other and then you have something automatically to talk about afterwards, which you can also potentially get a real sense of, like who that person is for better or for worse.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: Oh, what someone laughs at at a film can be so telling us, like, do we have the same sense of humor? What's going on?
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I guess, like, I mean, not to bring it back to this, but I think the Bird Cage is a perfect date movie because it's fun and joyful, but it's also very much about the commitment of two people and a loving, beautiful, long term relationship. So I think you can really, you know, you could probably get a real good sense up to what that other person that you're dating's thoughts are on relationships in general based on how they respond to what this film is saying about relationships.
[00:15:38] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: I was going to say just on the, on the casting thing too, I think sometimes we as, as queer folks, we can kind of get in our own way of like, oh, it has to be all queer people on the cast at every level. And like, that sounds lovely. That's my dream to work on a project like that. But you also want to give space, like, especially with younger actors and some people might not be out. Like, we actually don't live in a society where it's necessarily safe for everyone to be out. And so having that hard and fast rule around whether or not, you know, someone in the role is gay or not, like, I think I appreciate your nuanced perspective on it.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think it's. We saw what happened with the young man from Heartstopper and that was horrible. And I feel like, yeah, it's, it's still in many ways a more viciously homophobic society than it was 20 years ago because of the Internet and because of like how much access we have to everybody as a public. And, and yeah, I just feel like, especially if you're Connor Story and Hudson Williams, who were not famous at all 10 seconds ago and now are, you know, basically Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet. Yeah, we should give them a minute to figure out what they want to do and how they want to do it. 100. I do so because I sort of came to the idea of outing and coming out as a child of the 90s, like, literally as a teenager. And there was this sort of real push because there was and still are a lot of closeted actors in Hollywood. And that's when I do find myself getting a little bit more annoyed when people who have such incredible platforms and power and had been seeing us for a very long time, but are still fighting it not to use her an example because she has very much, you know, not very much. She's come out to a degree. But Jodie Foster was someone who was not really saying it for so long and then kind of saying it, but it's like she could have said it at a moment that really would have made a difference. And I don't want to. I don't want to harp on her because she did eventually say it. She also had some reasons based on, like, what happened to her as a teenager with the attempted assassination, but just her as one example of someone who. They're that famous. I do feel like they can make a difference. And to me, I just question the intentions behind the various people that maybe we all know, and I'm certainly not going to say on this podcast, but that are, you know, pretty much, we all know our gay, but they just aren't saying it for no real reason as far as I'm concerned. Just because they don't want to be bothered.
[00:18:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. We should just pretend you say them and go and just do like five, like six beeps in a row as though you're naming them.
Oh, man, that is. I mean, that is interesting. I remember when Jodie Foster did make that speech and I did have sort of mixed feelings about it because she, I mean, she said it without saying it in a way. I think that. I think we're thinking about speech where she, like, kind of said it without saying it.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Right?
[00:18:43] Speaker C: Where she's like, we all know, like, I don't need to kind of say, say more. Right. But I remember, I remember too, having a bit of mixed feelings, being like, it would mean so much to some people if you just say it.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: And I just, you know, she has so much protection. And again, I don't want to keep hoping on her because there's people that have actually said Nothing that could have just as much power. But if you have that much power and protection and you've been so famous for so long, I don't think there's the same kind of threat that. That might face these young people who are just coming to in a much different Hollywood. Hollywood. I don't even know what that means anymore, but much different sort of popular culture where I think that, you know, a lot of damage can be inflicted on them. Like, you're. Even as you're watching the heated rivalry guys, you know, even sort of navigate this kind of fame, they're doing a great job. But I get a little nervous because it seems very dangerous for people who are. They're just babies.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Yeah. When you say that, that someone like Chapel Roan comes to mind that who's an artist and, like, has had to step back at times, you. Because the fandom has been so at such, like, a fever pitch. It's like she's like, I was just in my bedroom a year ago doing this.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's the thing.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: It's like, not even about necessarily the homophobia that these artists might face, although that's definitely part of it. But it's also just, as you said, like, fandom is wild now compared to 10 years ago, even. And it's like, people do need to protect themselves because this world is also wild and horrible and really difficult for anybody to sort of navigate, let alone when you're Chapel Roan or Hudson Williams, which, you know, that's a whole other story.
[00:20:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: I'd love to know from your perspective, what makes.
What makes something queer cinema. Like, are there key elements that have to be there? Is it only wrapped up in story or.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's pretty subjective, and I totally respect a lot of people's definitions of it that might differ from my own. You know, to me, it's like, ideally, there's a queer filmmaker behind it, there's a queer story being told, and there's a queer sensibility. I don't think that all three of those things need to be there for that to be the case. Like, you look at Pedro Almodovar, Definitely queer filmmaker, definitely queer sensibility. A lot of his stories, actually, or his films aren't about queer people. A lot of them are about straight women. But I still consider all of his films queer cinema. Yeah. And then you look at the Birdcage, which queer story, 100%.
But the people involved mostly are straight, with the exception of Nathan Lane, who was, I believe, closeted at the Time.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: I don't know that he was out in the 90s.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Yes, and for a good reason, I think. But. But most of the people involved in that film, I mean, and this has been written about extensively, but it is alleged that Mike Nichols was bisexual, so. But you also don't even know with some filmmakers what their identity is. But the Birdcage is a really interesting film because I think it. To me, it's more gay cinema because if mainstream and it is. As much as we as queer people love that movie, it was designed for street people. It was just designed very, very well.
So to me, that's a question. Is that queer cinema? I'm not sure.
[00:21:53] Speaker C: Right. What's. Do you want to tell the listeners what's coming up in the next little while for the Cinema Club and why they should come and see something?
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Yeah, we have a really good, exciting run right now. Our winter series is coming to a close with the birdcage on February 18th. And then after that, which is just. I'm so amazed that this even happened because it was initially quite random. I was looking at the three dates that I had for March and April and May and had realized that the April date fell on John Waters 80th birthday. So I was like, okay, perfect. We're gonna. We haven't shown John Waters yet, so we're gonna show Female Trouble in honor of his birthday. But then I looked and like, who else is turning 80 in 2026? And it turns out a lot of people really as Dolly Parton and David lynch, the late, great David lynch, they were actually born just a couple days apart. 1946. Sally Field, 1946.
But it just so happened that on my March date, Liza Minteli is turning 80.
[00:22:49] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: And on my April date, or sorry, my May date, cher is turning 80. So we're doing tributes to all three of them. With drag performers doing tributes to Liza, Cher and John. We're having lookalike contests each night with really great prizes. The films are showing for Liza, it's Cabaret, John Water's Female Trouble. And then for Cher, we're showing Come Back to the Five and Dine, Jimmy Dean. Jimmy Dean, which is a Robert Altman film from the early 80s that I just discovered a few years ago. And it's very amazing. It has a queer twist that I think is handled pretty well considering the time that it's from. So, yeah, that's spring. And I think you should all come to all of them because they're going.
[00:23:27] Speaker C: To be amazing queer, queer elders and icons.
It doesn't get.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: In terms of icons. It doesn't get much bigger than lies and share.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: My wife and I were talking about, like, I, like, even just myself, I'm like, I need to be more aware and, like, invested lesbians who came before me.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Who, like, paved the way. I love that you're paying. On the shore of queer elders.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: No.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: As I become a queer older myself, I have really benefited from having friends who are 10, 20, 30 years older than me. And I don't know, I get the sense, for some reason, that that's not happening as much with the generations under us. So I think it's a great queer tradition that I think we need to, as we get older, make sure that we're continuing when it comes to people that are grounded.
[00:24:14] Speaker C: Yeah. The intergenerational, I think. I mean, you do that so well with the Core Cinema Club. Like back in. I forget the fall, I came and saw Winter Kept a Swarm that you played. It was made at uft, and it was like, the actors who were playing in it didn't even know it was a queer film.
Like, it was so coded and underground. And it just, like, it really goes to show you, watching it today, how lucky and privileged we are to be able to be as out as we are in this day and age.
And so I really appreciate that you. That you often dip back into these historical elements and. And then, like we said, you have people of all generations in the audience watching it, and it's so important.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Totally. I mean, that film, I think, was turning 60. Yeah. It was, I believe, the first sort of vaguely, openly LGBTQ film ever made in Canada, or English language, at least. And whenever I program films like that, I get a little nervous that I'm like. Feel like I'm assigning homework.
[00:25:08] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then they didn't feel like that.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Tons of people come. I mean, I don't. I know that if they come, they won't feel like it's being designed. Homework. But by just making the effort to come to the theater and see a movie that's six years old and is in black and white. I don't know.
You know, I worry that that's not necessarily appealing for everyone, but it seems like I'm continuing to be proven wrong, and that makes me really happy.
[00:25:28] Speaker C: I can't get over how important it is for the city and for us queers. So thank you.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: No, my pleasure. And one thing maybe I will add is ever since I started doing it, there have been people who have reached out being like, I want to start one where I am. And we started kind of a sibling chapter in Montreal that a wonderful guy is running. But then also there's one that happened in, like, rural Massachusetts, Salt Lake City. So, anyway, if you're listening to this and you want to start one, feel free to just DM me and I'll give you any tips that I can.
But I guess the one tip I give everyone is find an incredible movie theater. And if you're not lucky enough to live where there is one that's run by, like, really open and wonderful people, then I'm sorry.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: Shannon's Paradise Theater.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Everyone that works there is just the best.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts, who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papienis.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: I'm getting that.
