On Dating

[00:00:00] Speaker A: And then if they were just there looking for, like, hookups, they should put a bag of lay's chips in there as well. [00:00:11] Speaker B: If you have any questions, I know you can simply ask your trusty. Dear queer. Dear queer. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Welcome back, everyone, including us. It's been a while. Today on the pod, we're gonna talk about dating. We've, I guess, alluded to this topic in other episodes where we've talked about, like, lessons in love or boundaries even, or green, you know, green flags, red flags. But this one, we're gonna be more specific to the experience of modern dating these days and dating online and the advantages and disadvantages of that. [00:01:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I think a common theme amongst my single buds is app fatigue. And just like, ugh. This kind of sigh and dread about, like, yeah, I gotta come on the apps, like, I wanna be out there, but, you know, it's not really hitting. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. This notion of fatigue. Because it feels like. It feels like the apps feel like a necessary evil. [00:01:36] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. [00:01:37] Speaker A: It's like, it feels like something you kind of have to be on in order to be connected to find people outside of your neighborhood, people that you wouldn't normally maybe run into. But fatigue is a good way of putting it because it just the. I mean, I guess the way they're designed is. I mean, there is a history there to the way some, like, even, like, Facebook, or was it Facebook? I think both Facebook and Tinder were designed. Well, first of all, by, like, white cis men. But in their history, it was all in the beginning, was basically about rating people, rating women specifically, and having this kind of swipe, like, left or right. This kind of. Yes, no, actually, first it was a number system. I think it was like, rate them on a scale, which is just horrendous. But I mean, it kind of speaks to our experience on those apps and how kind of empty and unfulfilling and two dimensional. It feels absolutely right to just be swiping like that, but it creates this kind of, like you can have. I literally had this happen on hinge recently where it's basically warned me that I can't make any new connections because there's too many people I'm not talking to at the moment. [00:02:49] Speaker C: You got to the bottom, right? [00:02:51] Speaker A: Well. Cause I have too many already. And they're like, no, no, no, don't make any more matches. We want you to talk to the people that are already there. [00:02:58] Speaker C: I think that all comes back to the. I don't know if you've heard this kind of phrase, but the paradox of choice. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:03:05] Speaker C: And it's just like the idea that there is so many options. You know, it's that classic grass is greener, and it's like, well, what's the next swipe gonna be? And so it becomes even less about the person who's on the other side of your device and more about, like, I don't know, like, coke, bond, like, gotta collect them all. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Gotta get a match. Gotta get a feeling of you. Match. Right. Tinder, for a while, too, was doing this expiry thing where you'd make a new match. It's like, you have 24 hours to talk to this person. Cause I think they were finding this, that people were just matching and never speaking to each other. [00:03:38] Speaker C: I mean, I've met great people off the apps. I have. You know, full disclosure, I haven't been on the apps in a minute. [00:03:47] Speaker A: Lucky you. [00:03:48] Speaker C: But I remember, do they still do this thing where you could, like, buy roses? [00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's on hinge. I think you have one free one. You'd be like, one free one a week or something special. I hate the roses. They make me so. [00:04:00] Speaker C: I never understood it. [00:04:01] Speaker A: No. [00:04:02] Speaker C: Someone said to you that I'm like, oh, no. Cringe. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah, no, same. It makes me deeply uncomfortable for some reason. [00:04:07] Speaker C: Why is that, though? [00:04:08] Speaker A: Cause I think it feels extra. It feels extra when you don't know this person and you're just. I mean, at least on hinge, you're basing it on not just photos, but there's descriptors and prompts and people have said more about themselves than. It was just Tinder, where you have the option to literally say nothing. [00:04:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:23] Speaker A: But it still feels over the top. Like, you're giving this, like, a rose is a romantic flower, too, you know? So giving rose to someone you've never. You have almost no knowledge of, you never met in real life, so it feels weird to be like, here's this virtual flower. [00:04:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay, so, okay, we're on the apps. We're not. Like, we're not sure about them. We've got some fatigue. Are you on the apps? Like, you're. What's your. [00:04:50] Speaker A: What's your vibe? [00:04:50] Speaker C: Currently? [00:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I am, unfortunately. As if. [00:04:53] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Yeah, you know. You know, you know everything. But there's definitely go through phases of just complete apathy towards them and not wanting to engage. Like, just let just. They just. Our hinge also has the benefit, in a way, of you just being passive. [00:05:10] Speaker C: Okay. [00:05:11] Speaker A: And just kind of existing on there. And people can like you rather than you having to actively swipe and stuff and, like, look around. [00:05:16] Speaker C: It kind of feel good. [00:05:17] Speaker A: It kind of feels good. But it also just means. But what if we're all just doing that? [00:05:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:21] Speaker A: So then no one's ever liking anyone. Cause everyone's just waiting to be liked by someone else. Cause no one has the energy to be on it. Oh, my gosh. [00:05:28] Speaker C: I feel like we should do a quick lookup of stats of how many swipes to actual conversations and meetups. [00:05:35] Speaker A: How is that possible? What do you mean? [00:05:37] Speaker C: Google? Should we google it? [00:05:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, let's see. [00:05:44] Speaker D: Anything interesting? [00:05:45] Speaker A: Okay. [00:05:47] Speaker C: I know you love a fact. [00:05:48] Speaker A: So 13.2% of online dating users meet matches right away, which makes sense to me, because if I start talking to someone, I do try and meet up with them rather than just talking. What can end up being endlessly? [00:06:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I think things can die kind of on the vine. There's this moment of inertia that you have to kind of capture. At least that was my experience. Otherwise, it's just never gonna happen. [00:06:14] Speaker A: It's never gonna happen. And also, there's no point in kind of talking too much online when the vibe can be different in person, you have so much time to craft things online and everything, versus in person, the energy can be different. [00:06:27] Speaker C: Totally. Anyways, yeah, it's certainly people are meeting on there. Like, a lot of folks met their partner, girlfriend, boyfriend. Both my siblings met their wives. [00:06:42] Speaker A: They did. [00:06:43] Speaker C: On apps. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, like I said, it feels like a necessary evil, because it's just that's kind of the way our culture is. Like, people are. It's a big city. People have lots of, you know, differing hobbies and things that they do. We're busy. It's hard to find time. So, like, this does, you know, someone can just, from the comfort of their couch one night when they're home, can just do some swiping and maybe make a connection with someone, which is convenient. It's much easier than and less vulnerable than just going out alone. [00:07:21] Speaker C: Yes. [00:07:22] Speaker A: To a place. [00:07:23] Speaker C: Yes. [00:07:23] Speaker A: And just hanging out there and hoping you're gonna meet someone. Right. [00:07:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Which is hard. And, I mean, I've done that where I'm just doing some writing or something, and I'll just go someplace alone, and maybe I'll end up chatting with some people, or maybe you'll see some people, you know, or whatever, but it's a hard thing to do. And people can be shy and nervous and introverted and events, clubs, bars, whatever those spaces can be intimidating to go to alone. [00:07:53] Speaker C: Totally. I have so loved watching your approach to dating. I think even, I mean, can we talk about your recent event? [00:08:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that was funny. So I forget where I heard it. Maybe on the radio that there was someplace and maybe Spain. People were telling me it was Spain, but I couldn't remember when I had heard it. I just heard about the supermarket event that they were doing somewhere where people just set a certain time in the supermarket for single people to show up, and they'd put certain things in their cart to signal that they were there for the mixer and they were approachable. And I was just like, that's a great idea because let's get offline and into real spaces. Yeah. Because that's the thing. It's getting people in the same space at the same time. Often bars and things can have queer events, but they're not geared towards single people, necessarily. And you go there, it's loud, it's noisy, it might be hard to talk to people, or people just have shown up with their friends, and there's not a lot of sort of mingling between groups. [00:08:57] Speaker C: You can't penetrate that. [00:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah, right. And it makes it difficult. And so I was just like, that's brilliant, because, I mean, first of all, we all need groceries and something people need to do anyways, and it's just a way to get people in the same space at the same time and to make new connections, potentially. And it was a very cute event. [00:09:17] Speaker C: Okay, Elena is burying the lead. [00:09:19] Speaker A: What do you mean? [00:09:20] Speaker C: Well, I just thought it was so funny. You made this TikTok and basically it was like, hey, singles. Singles. You know, queer singles in Toronto meet at this grocery store, and then you had them put in, like, an item in their cart so that you could kind of flag or signal, which I just thought was so clever. [00:09:40] Speaker A: Yeah, we had alternative milk and a pumpkin, because that's like, visually you could see it from afar. If someone. And plus the pairing of those two things, you'd be able to see that they were there for the event. And then if they were just there looking for, like, hookups, they should put a bag of lay's chips in there as well. I didn't. I don't think I saw any lays. I don't think I saw any lay's chips, but. But it was very cute. We just ended up basically conglomerating in the alternative food aisle section, which is also very adorable and chatting. And honestly, there was a lot of. I don't think I knew a single person. [00:10:15] Speaker C: Amazing. [00:10:16] Speaker A: And there were people that. [00:10:17] Speaker C: And you posted this? [00:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah, and there were people. I mean, there were some people who told me they were gonna come, who didn't come, that I didn't know, but it was interesting. Cause it was people who live not far away, let's say. And I've still never seen them. One person commented that they were like, when I saw your TikTok, they were like, I don't know you, and I don't know any of your friends either. That blew their mind. Cause they're like, I thought I knew everyone. [00:10:41] Speaker C: I think that's a good reminder. Sometimes we'll be at events or we'll go to something that's a little bit outside of our standard circle, and I'll be like, where did all these queers come from? It's like there's a whole other universe of queers in this city that I didn't even know were there. It's so beautiful and amazing. [00:10:58] Speaker A: Totally. And there were some people there. Like, there was one couple who was there. They wanted more friends. I think the next event I'm gonna do in November, I'm gonna call no friends were. And where people can go and meet friends, we're gonna do it outside. Hopefully it won't be too cold, and people can bring their dogs and whatever, and hopefully meet some new friends too, because that's. I think a lot of people have the capacity for more friends, for sure, and some people, it's not even about having the capacity for, but there's a lot of people who genuinely want and need more friends and. Yeah. So why not just create another space to do that where everyone who goes there, you know, they're there looking to connect and make new friends. Whereas again, if you go to a club or a party or whatever, that's not necessarily people's intention. They might be fine with who they're with, and they don't want to chat and they don't want to engage, but this is, you know, people who all want the same thing. [00:11:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I think in the last few years since the pandemic, there's been a great resurgence of queer clubs and even bars and a lot in this city. I mean, I'm lucky enough. Dev and I met at a queer run group, and I am so grateful for that. But to your point, some of these things aren't expressly designed for making new connections and things like that. You don't have to go as far as Elena did and create a singles mixer in the alternative section of a grocery store. You could go to those things and keep an eye out. I think getting outside of your, like, your comfort bubble is the best. [00:12:38] Speaker A: It is. Yeah. [00:12:39] Speaker C: It's vulnerable, though. Like, what do you. Any advice for someone who's trying to put themselves out there in a way. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Other than the abs, I mean, I think you just have to practice it as one thing. The more you do it, the less scary it'll be. And all it takes is one time to go to one of those things and say, okay, I actually had a great time, or I met some new friends, and then you're like, okay, this was. This is worth it. And now I have a few new friends, and that's amazing. [00:13:06] Speaker C: How do you feel about a setup. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Blind date kind of thing? [00:13:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Putting out to your friends, like, hey, in your extended group, do you know anyone who you think we. I'm. I don't know. [00:13:19] Speaker A: I think. I mean, I don't mind that, but that does make me a little uncomfortable, because there can sometimes feel, like, pressure to connect with that person. But what I think. I think I'm just gonna start experimenting with other events. And, for example, maybe do one where I invite a lot of couples that I know, but you have to bring a single friend. [00:13:34] Speaker C: Ooh, that's fun. [00:13:35] Speaker A: So then it's a bunch of couples with a bunch of single friends, and so then everyone can kind of mix and mingle, and the singles can, like, meet each other, but not with the pressure of, like, you two might hit it off or, you know, like, other people are hoping you two will hit it off. So I think I'm just trying to. [00:13:52] Speaker C: And then, like, be a little more. Couples have to, like, disappear, and then you're like, wait a minute. Where'd they get. [00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah, seriously? I guess so. They could. Yeah. Couples have to leave by a certain time and night. They have a curfew, and then the rest can just. That's actually a good point. It can just turn into a singles thing later. Yeah. So, I don't know. I just think I want to. In order for me to be excited about it, I feel like it needs to be a little more creative in a way. [00:14:16] Speaker C: Maybe we need to do, like, a speed dating night. [00:14:19] Speaker A: See, but that's. [00:14:20] Speaker C: Or is that too much pressure? [00:14:21] Speaker A: Again, I don't know what it's pressure, but it feels so. Something about it being so manufactured. I mean, I've done speed dating no way. In the past. Yeah, I've went to one or two, maybe when I first came out, and it's deeply uncomfortable. [00:14:37] Speaker C: Okay, well, we're not speed date evangelists. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Yet. [00:14:40] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:14:40] Speaker A: I mean, and there are some in Toronto, I think, very queer Toronto hosts those. I don't know how popular they are or how successful they are, but I don't know. Maybe I. I don't know what it is. Some people, I'm sure that's great. Some people want something that feels a little more organic. And I don't know if the speed dating is better or worse for shy people or not. Like, I'm trying to kind of think it through. I don't know if they'd prefer having some sort of structure or if that would be scary to be like, what do you mean? I have to talk to all these people and I only have a few minutes each to do it, so I don't know. [00:15:17] Speaker C: Okay, so going to these events is great, but can also still be on the apps. One question someone wrote in on our social was asking, okay, what do I do when I see my pals or people I know on the apps? How do I handle that? [00:15:35] Speaker A: I think people have different philosophies. [00:15:36] Speaker C: Some people will match with their friends in a friendship. Match of, hey, I see you. [00:15:42] Speaker A: I guess so, yeah. [00:15:43] Speaker C: What's your vibe? [00:15:44] Speaker A: I find that confusing. Cause I don't know what they're doing, but that's me. Other people. [00:15:50] Speaker C: Why are you budget? [00:15:51] Speaker A: I don't know that. I find a little. Cause I'm like, what is this? [00:15:55] Speaker C: I wanna know if this is like, are we sussing each other out for romantic purposes and then it can turn friendship? Or is this just like, hey, hey, chill. [00:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So I find that personally a little confusing. Cause then I don't understand if that person is interested or not. Right. [00:16:12] Speaker C: Well, I guess it depends what they say. True, right, true. Like, if they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I got nuts at. [00:16:21] Speaker A: No, what you mean if they end up, then maybe add deliberately, obviously asking you out or something, versus just kind of chit chatting endlessly. [00:16:29] Speaker C: Yes, text me. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. I find that confusing. But some people might find it more clear cut. I don't know, maybe that's a bit of my neurodivergence potentially being like, tell me what this is. I don't get it. I don't get it. [00:16:48] Speaker C: Any other advice for folks who just, you know, are in the, like, malaise of dating? [00:16:53] Speaker A: That's such a good way of putting it. Because that's what exactly I was thinking. Because I've been through malaise of dating and I think there's no point in doing it if you're not excited about it. Like, because it's unlikely you're gonna just find someone who brings that excitement unless you're already bringing some energy to it. So if you can't meet someone or go on a date or even chat with them and have energy for it and be excited about it, then just take a break. [00:17:22] Speaker C: Why would they be excited about you? [00:17:23] Speaker A: Exactly. So just take a break. So I think that's what I've come out of where I'm like, okay, no, if this is something I want to do, I have to have the energy for it and be engaged and put effort into it, because it doesn't just happen. I mean, maybe it'll happen if someone makes an event and you show up and then you'll vibe it out in real life. But what I mean is, in the online, like, it takes energy and effort to be deliberate about it. Otherwise, I feel like it can just trail off into nothing. [00:17:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I think too, even if you are meeting folks, one really cool thing. So when Dev and I met, it was at this coffee shop, and very quickly we went from, like, oh, let's reach out. Let's follow each other on socials. Let's plan. Oh, are we gonna, like, we went, like, with another friend of mine and, like, had dinner. Like, went on a hike. You gotta move into things. Cause I think there's, like, stuff can go stale so fast. [00:18:24] Speaker A: So fast. [00:18:25] Speaker C: So you gotta be proactive as well. [00:18:27] Speaker A: Is what I would say. Yeah. Nice. All right, sweet. Well, good luck to everyone on their dating adventures. If you have any really good ones or tips you want to share, write it in. [00:18:38] Speaker D: This has been another episode of Dear Queer. Just a reminder, we are not actually experts. Any advice given should actually come from our experts, who we will bring in from time to time. Music brought to you by Sean Patrick Brennan. Produced by myself, Lauren Hogarth, and your host, as always, Elena Papianis. [00:18:55] Speaker C: I'm getting that.